Z-Wave Switches Compared With UPB Switches - Advice Needed

[SouthFloridaMatt]

All,

I have been dealing with several simple z-wave switch issues - tricky 3 way slaves, my wife dimming with a long tap instead of turning off with a quick tap, etc. Recently I have been looking at UPB switches and I was frankly surprised at how many features the switches themselves (SA switches) offered compared to z-wave. I am half way through my home installation - about 11 z-wave switches (9 GE/Jasco & 2 ACT transmit only) and I am wondering if I should have gone UPB. Specifics aside - both technologies are very reliable, however, looks like theses SA UPB switches can:

- Be configured on the fly to be relay OR dimmer
- always support instant status
- support double taps
- be configured to show blue OR green LEDs
- all support scenes

They are only slightly more expensive than the GE/Jasco switches I have been using but the comparative feature set looks too good to be true - is it? If any of you is using a hybrid z-wave/upb network I would love your input - it there a significant downside to UPB?

[Rupp]

It's all true and the two technologies work side by side just fine. Be sure your have neutrals or you can't use the UPB switches. Older UPB switches had a delay when activated but this is supposed to be fixed in the GenII products. I'm not sure about the "slightly more expensive" part but when you're spending over 50 bucks for a simply light switch what's a few more dollars.

[nightwalker]

I can't really add to what Rupp said (he beat me to the punch as usual) but I've been using UPB for years now. No troubles that weren't self induced. I don't use slave switches instead I just use a standard switch and have links do the work. One thing I should mention is yes you can set a UPB to snap on/off only, effectively making it a relay type but think of it as a very low amp relay, like a bathroom fan small. Trying to switch a large load will kill your switch.

[jlrichar]

I started with half my switches as z-wave, and the other UPB. All of my (interact) z-wave switches have died. None of my UPB have. Naturally I favor UPB.

On the down side I have noticed that UPSs such as APC smartUPS will introduce noise on the powerline. For these I simply use an x10 filter for the UPS. Also LED xmas lights seem to also introduce noise, however not when plugged into lamp modules.

Speaking of lamp modules, a few years ago Fry's sold a brand of UPB called HAL. When they cleared it out I purchased as many of the lamp modules and remotes as the local store had for $5 each. The HAL brand is actually made by simply automated and the remotes work with SA switches. So now whenever I need to automate some thing I throw a lamp module at it. And when a zwave switch and remote dies I only need to buy UPB switch to replace.

Also simply automated is simply an awesome company to deal with for customer service--at least for me.

BTW I have zero affiliation with them--just a happy customer so far.

One downside to UPB is that there seems to be nothing done to the HS plugin in quite a while. While z-wave plugin development seems to be the only thing that HS works on lately. Perhaps the UPB plugin is that solid? Perhaps it is because lots of companies are introducing z-wave locks and stats and such, and each one requires more code? No idea. Probably both.

Anyway hope this information helps.

[SouthFloridaMatt]

Rupp - when you quoted my 'slightly more expensive' phrase, what did you mean? I am VERY new to this - did you mean in your experience UPB switches are usually more/less expensive than Z-Wave ones?

The recent RadioShack firesale on Z-Wave is what got me to finally jump on board with HomeSeer and get a bunch of switches... I am generally shelling out $35/switch at this point for the GE/Jasco ones. I am no where near the Leviton/Cooper (wow) price neighborhood and, until recently, I had completely ignored the UPB stuff because I assumed it was much more. However, keeping an eye out for sales, sometimes I see the switches for ~$50, so it's at least in the same ballpark.

[Rupp]

Rupp - when you quoted my 'slightly more expensive' phrase, what did you mean? I am VERY new to this - did you mean in your experience UPB switches are usually more/less expensive than Z-Wave ones?

The recent RadioShack firesale on Z-Wave is what got me to finally jump on board with HomeSeer and get a bunch of switches... I am generally shelling out $35/switch at this point for the GE/Jasco ones. I am no where near the Leviton/Cooper (wow) price neighborhood and, until recently, I had completely ignored the UPB stuff because I assumed it was much more. However, keeping an eye out for sales, sometimes I see the switches for ~$50, so it's at least in the same ballpark.

UPB switches are typically more expensive than Z-Wave and it's rare to see UPB on sale. They start around $65 per switch and go up from there.

[drozwood90]

It's all true and the two technologies work side by side just fine. Be sure your have neutrals or you can't use the UPB switches. Older UPB switches had a delay when activated but this is supposed to be fixed in the GenII products. I'm not sure about the "slightly more expensive" part but when you're spending over 50 bucks for a simply light switch what's a few more dollars.

I use Gen1 switches, there is no "delay". The delay Rupp is talking about is the OLDER...i.e. you can't buy any more switches. They were Gen1, but I don't think that was the issue. The newer ones, you can adjust the delay length, so I just make it really small (Gen1 or Gen 2).

You need this delay to determine if you are single, double, or long tapping the switch.

In fact, when I started with UPB, I ended up with only 1 switch that acted like that, where you couldn't adjust the delay low enough. SA swapped it out for me. They are in the top two for the "best" customer support I've ever encountered.

As for cost, I bought US2-40s for my house (at the time, $70 per). I did that for the features. Had I been able to get the next version of the US11-30's (US11-40?), I would have gone that route for 50% of my switches (leaving bedrooms as US2-40, most hall and outside switches would be 11-40 as their feature set was sufficient for my purposes).

I see that the 11-40 is $55 and the 2-40 is $66 over at Automated Outlet.

So, I would have saved...maybe $150 or so in my setup...nothing I'm going to worry about at this point, but I would have been able to buy another touchscreen for my setup for "free" had that been an option at the time (11-40 did not exist).

I'm not sure how much you are spending on the Z-wave switches, but as Rupp pointed out, you the BIGGEST advantage to HS is it supports everything. So, you can hybrid your setup. Also, as he pointed out, UPB does require a neutral / switch. I was lucky, in my last house, I had 3-ways EVERYWHERE. So I just repurposed the traveler. In my new house, that we had built, I just made the builder put neutrals in ever switch box.

HTH

--Dan

[SouthFloridaMatt]

I'm very lucky as far as neutrals are concerned - we have a smaller house, about 1,800 sq ft, built in 1994 I think, but EVERY box I've opened has had a neutral 'bunch' in the back. Even a lonely 3-way switch with NO load in it still had a bunch of neutrals in the back (I re-purposed the traveler to carry a load and put an ACT transmitter switch there).

Silly request - can someone post some pics of their SA switches with the blue LED on... I would like to try some UPB switches, but may no go over so well if they don't 'match' all the Z-Wave switches already in place.

Also - do the SA switches feel more like a traditional decora switch? Does anyone make such a switch? I am talking about a switch with a bit more tactile feedback than a Z-Wave one. My 'dumb' switches clicked and it was obvious you had turned the light on - my Z-Wave switches don't really click and you barely touch them to turn them on - both my wife and I always seem to pause each time we use one to see if the light is going to come on...