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  • simplextech
    replied
    Originally posted by macromark View Post
    What are these devices? Are they exclusive to Zigbee or are there Z-Wave equivalents available? Curious...
    Specifically the ones I REALLY care about are the NYCE devices. Notably the NYCE Ceiling Motion Sensor.

    If you can make/find a z-wave motion sensor that is a FAST in response/reset and didn't look like an eye-ball watching you I'd buy them and forget about Zigbee. I have tried numerous brands/models of z-wave motion sensors. I have found a couple that are just as fast/sensitive/reset speed but they again are eye-balls!!! and well even to me that's creepy in the bathroom!

    The NYCE devices of which I've used/tested are top of the line. No equivalent that I've found. I suppose because they are manufactured under Control4 requirements. NYCE is a Control4 device maker but they have entered into the "consumer" market with their ZHA devices.

    Leave a comment:


  • macromark
    replied
    Originally posted by jeubanks View Post
    I have ZHA devices that I want to use directly but I can't.
    What are these devices? Are they exclusive to Zigbee or are there Z-Wave equivalents available? Curious...

    Leave a comment:


  • simplextech
    replied
    Originally posted by macromark View Post
    Check out the JowiHue plug-in if you need extended Zigbee support: https://forums.homeseer.com/showthread.php?p=1137957
    I have. It is wholly dependent on whatever deCONZ supports. deCONZ doesn't support much more than lights or that whole osram, philips ecosystem either. They also support the Xiaomi<SP?>. I have ZHA devices that I want to use directly but I can't. So I'm having to use my Vera Plus to continue using those devices.

    Leave a comment:


  • macromark
    replied
    Originally posted by jeubanks View Post
    What what point will ZHA be supported not just ZLL? I would like to do more with Zigbee than just turn on a light bulb.
    Check out the JowiHue plug-in if you need extended Zigbee support: https://forums.homeseer.com/showthread.php?p=1137957

    Leave a comment:


  • rjh
    replied
    The plugin will support whatever the Lightify unit supports. As for, when will we complete the plugin, hopefully this week. They have some new stuff in the API related to color bulbs that we have to look at.

    Originally posted by jeubanks View Post
    What what point will ZHA be supported not just ZLL? I would like to do more with Zigbee than just turn on a light bulb.

    Leave a comment:


  • simplextech
    replied
    Originally posted by rjh View Post
    Posting an update. Got the login working and can turn a device on/off. Once we get on/off/dim working we will post a plugin to start testing with, should be by tomorrow.

    They totally changed the API so this plugin is pretty much a total re-write. We will make sure we don't break any existing events though.
    What what point will ZHA be supported not just ZLL? I would like to do more with Zigbee than just turn on a light bulb.

    Leave a comment:


  • rjh
    replied
    Posting an update. Got the login working and can turn a device on/off. Once we get on/off/dim working we will post a plugin to start testing with, should be by tomorrow.

    They totally changed the API so this plugin is pretty much a total re-write. We will make sure we don't break any existing events though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Moskus
    replied
    Originally posted by darkjamzi View Post
    Would this plug-in work with the Zigate?
    No.


    Instead I would suggest go for a RaspBee on a Raspberry Pi, install deCONZ and use that as a gatewa for JowiHue.

    Leave a comment:


  • darkjamzi
    replied
    I ordered Zigate, this is a Zigbee USB contrpller which supports ZHA ZLL Zigbee v 3.0 etc etc. It can control Philips Hue, Xiaomi and other brands without the need for extra hubs from those vendors.

    Would this plug-in work with the Zigate?

    Leave a comment:


  • sooty
    replied
    I've been using HS3 with Z-Wave here in the UK since both HS3 and the Z-Wave plug-in were first available in beta form, so I have gained quite a bit of experience in this area over the years.

    Whilst I can sympathise with HST's quest in trying to keep up with the constantly moving target that is Z-Wave, I do agree with Ltek's comments about the use of the word "supported".

    A better choice of words (for European users at least) may have been:
    "The product may be fully or partially supported if you have sufficient time and knowledge to research and test multiple permutations of settings using our somewhat non-user-friendly settings interface as well as removing most of the unnecessary configuration that we set up for you by default."

    I really don't know what their (HST's) target user base is for Homeseer but I can't for the life of me imagine that the typical householder without some serious time on their hands is going to have any level of success setting up a working Z-Wave network. I have spent countless hours helping out other UK users who are totally bamboozled when starting out with Z-Wave.

    I appreciate that some of the issues around Z-Wave (device bugs etc) are outside of HST's control and Z-Wave is a complex technology but the way in which the user interacts with the software shouldn't be as painful as it is right now.

    Our Z-Wave support is much different than other systems. We interrogate the device you are adding and build the devices based on the device classes supported.
    I assume that interrogating the device doesn't give you a nice list of the parameters that it supports and what they do and this is why the settings section on the Z-Wave tab is a mess in many cases.

    Overall, I would say that in its current state, setting up Homeseer with Z-Wave is more of a "professional" task than something to be taken on by an "end user" where perhaps the likes of Vera etc could be deemed more of an "end user friendly" experience.

    Paul..

    Leave a comment:


  • Ltek
    replied
    Originally posted by rjh View Post
    Our Z-Wave support is much different than other systems. We interrogate the device you are adding and build the devices based on the device classes supported. This makes the software much more compatible. However, it also does make the UI a mess in many cases. Many devices support the new notification class then also support BASIC SET or BINARY for notifications so that the device works with older controllers. So HS creates 2 devices, when you only need one. To fix this we have been slowly removing the duplicate device as well as renaming devices so they are consistent, and adding specific icons for things like motion/luminance etc. when we know what the device actually supports. Unfortunately, Z-Wave never added identifiers for what a sensor senses, such as motion or door open. But we can look at the manufacturer ID to figure that out.

    So while the UI is not totally consistent, at least it works for just about everything you add, even devices we have never tested. I have added many newer devices to other controllers and they did not work at all since most controllers have to add support specifically for the device.
    For this Zwave device issue the fix is simple conceptually and you will leverage your community to do the work for you as new devices come to market.

    Fix:
    Create user editable 'Device Patterns / Templates' for each device type. When new device is paired, HS3 looks to see if a template is defined, if it is, it uses that to create the Device(s) in HS3. As new devices come to market anyone can add them to a template.

    This will make it on consistent. Such as:

    0 is always 'No Motion', 1 is always Motion
    ... even if the device sends 255 or 7 or 8, HS3 converts it based on the template's definition.
    and the same goes for the Child Devices themselves. When some devices define 'Home Security', HS3 coverts that to the child named "Motion" to be consistent with all the other motion devices.

    <rant>
    With a small amount of effort and the desire so many HS3 gaps/issues, like Zwave handling, could be 100x better.

    I understand how the Zwave handling is the way it is but you've had 14 years to implement a method to overcome the challenge.

    All your competitors (Wink, ST, Vera, etc) solved for this as a design requirement prior to launch in v1.0

    Several things in HS3 are are in the same boat where a litte effort would go a long way

    Example: plugin installer requiring manual file copying to install anything not on your HS server
    ... BTW, Bill Gates called to say the DOS code you are using to do that is now open source ;-)

    Example: no built-in method to autostart HS3
    ... yup, Bill Gates called again to say he built this into the Windows 3.1 SDK

    While I make light of the gaps I mention above, it is concerning that they, and numerous others like it, exist at all after 17 years of development.
    </rant>

    Leave a comment:


  • rjh
    replied
    Our Z-Wave support is much different than other systems. We interrogate the device you are adding and build the devices based on the device classes supported. This makes the software much more compatible. However, it also does make the UI a mess in many cases. Many devices support the new notification class then also support BASIC SET or BINARY for notifications so that the device works with older controllers. So HS creates 2 devices, when you only need one. To fix this we have been slowly removing the duplicate device as well as renaming devices so they are consistent, and adding specific icons for things like motion/luminance etc. when we know what the device actually supports. Unfortunately, Z-Wave never added identifiers for what a sensor senses, such as motion or door open. But we can look at the manufacturer ID to figure that out.

    So while the UI is not totally consistent, at least it works for just about everything you add, even devices we have never tested. I have added many newer devices to other controllers and they did not work at all since most controllers have to add support specifically for the device.


    Originally posted by Ltek View Post
    I did mix in a few general device usability issues, ultimately ALL of the gaps can be addressed via methods of device handling in HS3 code.

    Regardless if comparing to Vera or Wink or ST... HS3 should be 100x better at all things. Homeseer software is 18 years old, Zwave support is 14 years old. Yet, HS3 is less mature in many ways (maybe most ways) of Device handling then any of those 3. Lets start with an easy ones... treat a Motion sensor or a Door lock or <insert device type here>, the exact same, no matter what the brand. The others do. HS3 simply exposes the ugly underbelly of Zwave values/parameters and requires the user to make everything work as we need and that causes problems too... HS3's competition does it correctly and uniformly thus not requiring the extra work and problems.

    As much as I like HS3 - the software feels like its 18 year old code, not like its 18 years mature.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ltek
    replied
    Originally posted by macromark View Post
    @Ltek - thanks for taking the time to outline the problems you've run into. Your list does includes some Z-Wave issues we're aware of mixed with some apparent bugs or communication problems; the Schlage issues in particular. I was hoping you'd include some examples of how ST and Wink are doing a better job with Z-Wave (as you suggested) but I do see the Vera references at least. A number of the issues are not Z-Wave specific but are more HS3-specific but hey... I did ask you for your input.
    I did mix in a few general device usability issues, ultimately ALL of the gaps can be addressed via methods of device handling in HS3 code.

    Regardless if comparing to Vera or Wink or ST... HS3 should be 100x better at all things. Homeseer software is 18 years old, Zwave support is 14 years old. Yet, HS3 is less mature in many ways (maybe most ways) of Device handling then any of those 3. Lets start with an easy ones... treat a Motion sensor or a Door lock or <insert device type here>, the exact same, no matter what the brand. The others do. HS3 simply exposes the ugly underbelly of Zwave values/parameters and requires the user to make everything work as we need and that causes problems too... HS3's competition does it correctly and uniformly thus not requiring the extra work and problems.

    As much as I like HS3 - the software feels like its 18 year old code, not like its 18 years mature.

    Leave a comment:


  • macromark
    replied
    @Ltek - thanks for taking the time to outline the problems you've run into. Your list does includes some Z-Wave issues we're aware of mixed with some apparent bugs or communication problems; the Schlage issues in particular. I was hoping you'd include some examples of how ST and Wink are doing a better job with Z-Wave (as you suggested) but I do see the Vera references at least. A number of the issues are not Z-Wave specific but are more HS3-specific but hey... I did ask you for your input.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ltek
    replied
    @RJH,
    Is not just the price that is attractive for Zigbee devices; there are devices/product types/categories which exist for Zigbee which there is no equal in Zwave (size, functionality, quality, etc) - and the sheer # of devices will grow quickly in the next year.
    Zigbee is a major protocol being widely used and growing quickly... Philips, Osram, Amazon, Xiaomi, etc.
    ... I'm not just some random consumer just guessing.

    A few examples of devices that dont exist in Zwave world...

    Bosch Pro-Grade ZigBee Wireless Motion Detector ISW-ZPR1-WP13
    Xiaomi Smart Button
    Iris keypad
    Centrlite Zigbee Wireless Keypad
    Visonic MCT-340 Door Window Temperature Sensor
    NYCE NCZ-3011-HA ZigBee Door/Window Sensor
    NYCE NCZ-3043-HA ZigBee Ceiling Motion Sensor
    NYCE NCZ-3041-HA ZigBee Motion Sensor



    Originally posted by macromark View Post
    OK I'll bite. How is our Z-Wave support lacking "in many ways" compared to those vendors? Please be specific so I know you're being serious.
    ... but of course ...

    This info is purely about devices and how HS3 handles them, or does not. NOT about the # of devices "supported" as the word "supported" has a flexible definition (means different things to different people).

    Sensor Device mini-review:

    Sensor Device mini-review...

    Device handling, overall is lacking in painful ways. This causes much more work, and even problems when using in the Event system and in real-world HA situations.

    Door Locks:
    - Lacks Door Lock Management and Full Functionality
    - Free script works partly but not 100% as due to HS3s incorrect handling of schlage locks
    - HS3 doesn't read status of Schalge Door Locks properly (shows all zwave lock/unlock commands as "manual")
    - HS3 doesn't properly setup Schlage locks on initial install... Control Use properties are not set and status graphics do not exist
    - no way to see the existing User Codes (vera has this built-in and has for years)
    - requires adding 2 Notification parameters to get Unlock & Lock usage in Events... https://forums.homeseer.com/showthre...46#post1312646
    - requires a separate 3rd part script (if you are lucky enough to search and find) and additional manual event setup... https://forums.homeseer.com/showpost...47&postcount=1

    Setting / Viewing Parameters:
    - Painful, slow, tedious. HS3 doesn't record/track existing setting and each parameter must be set manually, one at a time... it takes about 2 minutes to set a single parameter and ensure it is actually set (it does not always set even when HS says it did). HS often errors, so multiple tries are the norm.
    - Validating a given parameter value is not an HS function; very sketchy, often the value simply doesnt show when queried in the plugin; even when it is set. When you click 'ready' HS should read all parameters and display the entire config, it provides you NOTHING.

    Physical Handling:
    - No Way to 'disarm' sensors. A valuable feature to quickly & easily create states that allow events to be more efficient. Example: any event (or set of) could be used based on sensor 'state', the event(s) functionality is enhanced and/or changed. All with only a single event control arming/disarming sensors. Instead, HS3 requires us to create a separate event for every situation; a lot more work. In prior systems I often disarm specific sensors based on combination of House Mode, Occupancy, Time of Day and 'Scene'... I had to scrap much of it moving from Vera to Homeseer as HS3 makes it far more work to re-create
    - No Logically Device Groups (All motion sensors in bedroom, All lights in bedroom, etc) ... which allow a streamlined and faster creation of Events, scripts, etc
    Use types:
    - composite Status (at a glance view / status for all devices of a specific type or in a specific room, etc)
    - composite Triggers (1 trigger based on multiple devices as a single entity)
    - composite Control (on/off/dim for multiple devices as a single entity)

    Inconsistent Device creation / handling:
    - example: 3 different motion sensors could have 3 differently named child devices for the actual 'motion' sensor. HS should normalize ALL child devices for consistency and better user experience. Currently we have to heavily edit each devices Status Graphics to create consistency in naming and add proper motion images for display

    Device History Log
    - Requires a 3rd party paid plugin
    - No easy way to create a 'Device Value History' to quickly/easily call a previous value/state to be used/set. Thus, reverting to a prior Scene/State, etc. This requires much more work in the Event system, which itself doesn't make this easy even if you manually build it. A lot of scripting and/or 3rd party paid plugins to aid a complex set of events to accomplish natively.

    Leave a comment:

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