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    #16
    Does this mean no more updates to the HS3 version? I'm stuck on HS3 myself and can't upgrade to HS4 due to a missing critical feature for me...even though I've already purchased a license for it. I still can't wrap my head around why they decided to deprecate "HAS BEEN ... FOR AT LEAST" as an event trigger while still allowing such events imported from HS3 to continue to function.

    ...le sigh....

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      #17
      Originally posted by IKUS View Post

      Does this mean no more updates to the HS3 version? I'm stuck on HS3 myself and can't upgrade to HS4 due to a missing critical feature for me...even though I've already purchased a license for it. I still can't wrap my head around why they decided to deprecate "HAS BEEN ... FOR AT LEAST" as an event trigger while still allowing such events imported from HS3 to continue to function.

      ...le sigh....
      Sorry, yes, HS3 is a bit too old to support.

      But regarding your "HAS BEEN ... FOR AT LEAST" - I agree with HST - "AT LEAST" can't be used as TRIGGER, it's a CONDITION and it's still available:

      Click image for larger version

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        #18
        Originally posted by IKUS View Post

        I still can't wrap my head around why they decided to deprecate "HAS BEEN ... FOR AT LEAST" as an event trigger while still allowing such events imported from HS3 to continue to function.

        ...le sigh....
        The trigger you refer to in HS3 was really a quasi Trigger/Condition and I can understand why HS deprecated it in HS4. It goes against the concept of a Trigger being a moment in time, e.g. a Device changing state or a specific Time. What it was actually doing was the equivalent of:
        The Trigger-
        IF 'The event will automatically trigger every 1 second'
        and the Condition-
        AND IF 'This Device Has been ... For at least...'

        As Alex says, the Condition is still there in HS4. If you want to construct a new event to act exactly the same as it did in HS3, just use the recurring Trigger combined with the Condition.

        Constructing an event this way it is immediately obvious that ,if you don't do something about it, the event will keep triggering every second once the Condition is satisfied. There are of course various ways of controlling this run away effect, which you are no doubt aware of. This was less obvious with the HS3 quasi Trigger/Condition which caused lots of problems for those not appreciating what was happening. I'm sure HS fielded many support queries, it has certainly been a recurring theme in the forum over the years.

        The other advantage of constructing the Event the HS4 way is that it makes you think 'do I really need this Event to check the Condition every second'? There may be instances where you do, but more often than not you will use a different Trigger or a longer recurring interval.

        Steve

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          #19
          Originally posted by SteveMSJ View Post

          The trigger you refer to in HS3 was really a quasi Trigger/Condition and I can understand why HS deprecated it in HS4. It goes against the concept of a Trigger being a moment in time, e.g. a Device changing state or a specific Time. What it was actually doing was the equivalent of:
          The Trigger-
          IF 'The event will automatically trigger every 1 second'
          and the Condition-
          AND IF 'This Device Has been ... For at least...'

          As Alex says, the Condition is still there in HS4. If you want to construct a new event to act exactly the same as it did in HS3, just use the recurring Trigger combined with the Condition.

          Constructing an event this way it is immediately obvious that ,if you don't do something about it, the event will keep triggering every second once the Condition is satisfied. There are of course various ways of controlling this run away effect, which you are no doubt aware of. This was less obvious with the HS3 quasi Trigger/Condition which caused lots of problems for those not appreciating what was happening. I'm sure HS fielded many support queries, it has certainly been a recurring theme in the forum over the years.

          The other advantage of constructing the Event the HS4 way is that it makes you think 'do I really need this Event to check the Condition every second'? There may be instances where you do, but more often than not you will use a different Trigger or a longer recurring interval.

          Steve
          Conceptually, a trigger is any causation..not just a moment in time or a single device's state change...it could be a combination of both. In fact, this is exactly how most of my hundreds of events are written. For instance, I want my backyard flood lights to turn off at some point after they've been on for at least 10 minutes and only when 3 external motion sensors haven't detected motion in over 5 minutes, a gate has been closed for at least 5 minutes, 2 doors on the house have each been closed for at least 1 minute, and the garage door has been closed for at least 1 minute. In HS3, this is a simple *SINGLE* event to create using AND'd conditions on each of the 8 devices conditioned on HAS BEEN. OFF/CLOSED FOR AT LEAST x MINUTES. This isn't doable in HS4 without creating 8 separate events, 1 for each device, or creating one monstrous event on state changes of each device with a bunch of conditions AND'd and OR'd together...and even that wouldn't work as well as it did under HS3 because it *requires* an explicit state change of one of the devices to even start checking the HAS BEEN OFF conditions of the other devices. Functionally, HS4 *CAN* still things the HS3-way because an import of such events from HS3 will allow them to run in HS4...you just can't create new ones. I get that forcing new users to do things a certain way is nice for support but for someone like me, who has years worth of events built on previously existing functionality that I use so heavily, (and that technically still *can* work under HS4) this forced do-it-this-way-or-don't-do-it-all mentality just makes me wanna Will Smith somebody. hehehe

          I've been an HS user since HS1 but without the ability for me to upgrade beyond HS3, the writing is on the wall for me on my ability to keep on keepin on. I just don't have the time or energy to rebuild my entire library of events just to be able to upgrade to HS4. For this reason alone, my eye has started to wander. I've already purchased new hardware and setup a Home Assistant box (with integration to HS3 of course) and have slowly started migrating what I can over there. I expect that by the time HS3 is so old that I can no longer use it, I'll have a much shorter path to migrate completely off of HS than to upgrade to HS4.

          Back in the Remootio vein...without HAS BEEN FOR AT LEAST as an event, how are you creating HS4 events that trigger after something as simple as a gate/garage door being left open for a period of time outside of the built-in LEFT-OPEN option provided by Remootio? Are you creating events that trigger every second with a HAS BEEN condition on them? ...to me that just seems nuts.

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            #20
            Originally posted by IKUS View Post

            Are you creating events that trigger every second with a HAS BEEN condition on them? ...to me that just seems nuts.
            Personally I don't, but that is exactly what the HS3 Trigger was doing. I'm not trying to argue with you I'm just trying to show you that you can do in HS4 what you did in HS3. You don't need multiple events. Try it or ignore me, I won't be offended🙂

            Steve

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by IKUS View Post
              Back in the Remootio vein...without HAS BEEN FOR AT LEAST as an event, how are you creating HS4 events that trigger after something as simple as a gate/garage door being left open for a period of time outside of the built-in LEFT-OPEN option provided by Remootio? Are you creating events that trigger every second with a HAS BEEN condition on them? ...to me that just seems nuts.
              Your approach looks a bit overcomplicated. The simple solution is to use delayed events, i.e.

              1. "Gate Open" => Raise alarm after 5 minutes;
              2. "Gate Closed" => End delayed event above.

              Originally posted by IKUS View Post
              I want my backyard flood lights to turn off at some point after they've been on for at least 10 minutes and only when 3 external motion sensors haven't detected motion in over 5 minutes, a gate has been closed for at least 5 minutes, 2 doors on the house have each been closed for at least 1 minute, and the garage door has been closed for at least 1 minute.
              You should have a look at AKSmartDevice plugin, that was the reason I created it - to avoid all these if's/or's/and's

              For HS3: https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/ul...n-for-homeseer

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by alexbk66 View Post

                Your approach looks a bit overcomplicated. The simple solution is to use delayed events, i.e.

                1. "Gate Open" => Raise alarm after 5 minutes;
                2. "Gate Closed" => End delayed event above.

                You should have a look at AKSmartDevice plugin, that was the reason I created it - to avoid all these if's/or's/and's

                For HS3: https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/ul...n-for-homeseer
                I agree that using the new HS4 recommended method makes things waaaay overcomplicated. On HS3, I can simply *AND* together multiple IF HAS BEEN FOR AT LEAST conditions and it's done and it works and I don't have to worry about delayed events hanging out there or having to be managed or deleted under certain circumstances. I will say that I *used to* use delayed events ALOT way back when, under HS2, but I eventually simplified that mess using anded IF HAS BEEN FOR AT LEAST conditions. They are super simple to implement, to read, and to manage...but with HS4's deprecation of this feature, the overcomplication you mentioned is forced upon me....that, or as you mentioned, I could try to reimplement using a helper plugin. I have so many events that make use of IF HAS BEEN FOR AT LEAST conditions in HS3 that the work required to update them all using another plugin or doing it the restrictive HS4-way would essentially have me starting over. Given the size of my setup, rewriting, testing, debugging, and validating that everything still works would be a gargantuan task with very little return. This is why I immediately downgraded back to HS3 once I discovered this restriction in HS4. On the plus side, it has forced me to me start looking at some of the newer stuff that is out there as I will have to migrate off of HS3 (and likely off of HS altogether) at some point when it no longer functions...hopefully it'll be well enough supported for a while.

                Hey HS guys, if you're reading this, why not just hide an advance options menu somewhere with a toggle that allow those of us who use it, to turn it back on is HS4? As I've mentioned before, the functionality *does* work in HS4 if you import such events from HS3, you just can't add new ones or update existing ones.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by IKUS View Post
                  Hey HS guys, if you're reading this, why not just hide an advance options menu somewhere with a toggle that allow those of us who use it, to turn it back on is HS4? As I've mentioned before, the functionality *does* work in HS4 if you import such events from HS3, you just can't add new ones or update existing ones.
                  HS guys rarely read the forum, you better contact support

                  [EDIT]

                  Have you tried AKSmartDevice maybe? If it doesn't have required functionality, I can add it.

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