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  • #16
    OK, one more question specifically about DSC panels. I've been reading the installation manual and have not seen anything that would answer this. Are there any (for lack of a better description) "latch" times. By this I mean when a zone is made active by a PIR or any other device, does it immediately go inactive when the PIR returns to no motion or is it held for any reason? Does the zone device immediately and accurately reflect the status of the device connected to it?

    The one thing that I like about these hardwired motion sensors is the relatively instant transition from motion to no motion. From an event programming standpoint it makes it a lot easier to determine if there is active motion in a room.
    Randy Prade
    Aurora, CO
    Prades.net

    PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

    Comment


    • #17
      Hi Randy,

      The status is almost instant to report back no motion as well. Same is true for door/window contacts both opened/closed. I'm happy to take a phone call from you if you want to ask anything else about the DSC or setup when time comes. I have the 1864 Board and 5 expansion modules.

      Originally posted by rprade View Post
      OK, one more question specifically about DSC panels. I've been reading the installation manual and have not seen anything that would answer this. Are there any (for lack of a better description) "latch" times. By this I mean when a zone is made active by a PIR or any other device, does it immediately go inactive when the PIR returns to no motion or is it held for any reason? Does the zone device immediately and accurately reflect the status of the device connected to it?

      The one thing that I like about these hardwired motion sensors is the relatively instant transition from motion to no motion. From an event programming standpoint it makes it a lot easier to determine if there is active motion in a room.
      Jim
      ----
      Plugins:Z Wave 3.0.1.55, HS3 Pro 3.0.0.208, HS3Touch, HS3Touch IOS, Z-Net, SceneMaster, XBMC, Sonos, Media Controller, Envisalink (52 Virtual nodes), JowiHue, EasyTrigger, Liftmaster MyQ, BLBackup, BLLAN, BLRadar, Pushover

      Devices:Cooper RF9540, Cooper Scene, Yale Locks, Sonos, Phillips Hue and Lux, DSC, Somfy Blinds

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by 519zwave View Post
        Hi Randy,

        The status is almost instant to report back no motion as well. Same is true for door/window contacts both opened/closed. I'm happy to take a phone call from you if you want to ask anything else about the DSC or setup when time comes. I have the 1864 Board and 5 expansion modules.
        Thanks for the information and the offer.

        I have decided to go with an 1864 to offer the maximum expansion, an RFK5564 keypad with wireless support and an Envisalink EVL-4. As it is that time of year, I'll have to budget for it after the first of next year.

        That should be enough to get me started, learning the programming, interfacing with HomeSeer, etc. I have been perusing the programming manual and it does look a little awkward, but I'm sure it will make more sense with the actual hardware on hand.

        Once all of that is done, I will add some expansion boards. With the generous length of interconnect allowed, I can locate the main panel in my equipment closet and add expansion boards in remote locations around the house and outside buildings to save on zone cabling.

        Partitioning is a nice concept, because I can secure areas outside the living area, while I occupy the house.

        If all of this works out, I'll probably wish I went down this road last year as I was building out HomeSeer. Using a standalone security system makes a lot of sense. It looks like Eyes-on offers a some free services that are worth looking at and could even be leveraged as redundancy for HomeSeer for trouble notifications.

        The tough sell will be my wife, as she is skeeved out by cameras and motion detectors - the keypad may push her over the edge.
        Randy Prade
        Aurora, CO
        Prades.net

        PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

        Comment


        • #19
          This is what I used to install and program mine:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfTdZ_xwGJk
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q_xYl9m7xk
          Jim
          ----
          Plugins:Z Wave 3.0.1.55, HS3 Pro 3.0.0.208, HS3Touch, HS3Touch IOS, Z-Net, SceneMaster, XBMC, Sonos, Media Controller, Envisalink (52 Virtual nodes), JowiHue, EasyTrigger, Liftmaster MyQ, BLBackup, BLLAN, BLRadar, Pushover

          Devices:Cooper RF9540, Cooper Scene, Yale Locks, Sonos, Phillips Hue and Lux, DSC, Somfy Blinds

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by 519zwave View Post
            Thanks. That is the company I planned to purchase from.
            Randy Prade
            Aurora, CO
            Prades.net

            PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

            Comment


            • #21
              I highly recommend you get the English keypad. It makes programming MUCH easier. Otherwise you need to be absolutely aware of what you're doing at all times. Is the RFK5564 an English keypad?
              Originally posted by rprade
              There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by S-F View Post
                I highly recommend you get the English keypad. It makes programming MUCH easier. Otherwise you need to be absolutely aware of what you're doing at all times. Is the RFK5564 an English keypad?
                It is eight languages, default is English. I wasn't aware there were non-English keypads. Here is the product, does it lock correct? It is supposed to be a PK5500 with a wireless receiver.
                Randy Prade
                Aurora, CO
                Prades.net

                PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rprade View Post
                  It is eight languages, default is English. I wasn't aware there were non-English keypads. Here is the product, does it lock correct? It is supposed to be a PK5500 with a wireless receiver.

                  Looks good. When I was in the market a few years ago this wasn't an option.
                  I think mine is an RFK5500E or some such. With the trailing "E" meaning a somewhat more natural language interface. Even with this feature programming the panel is odd......
                  Originally posted by rprade
                  There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    There is also software available for programming and with it you can also backup and restore the config to a new board. It's called DLS and you can find it on this page: https://support.aartech.ca/index.php...mming-software. With it you need a connection to the serial port on the main board. You can build or buy the interface needed: https://www.aartech.ca/pclink-scw-ds...cable-kit.html. I have mine connected to a device server so I can run DLS anywhere on the network.

                    Cheers
                    Al
                    Last edited by sparkman; December 16th, 2015, 09:30 PM.
                    HS 3.0.0.548: 1976 Devices 1156 Events
                    Z-Wave 3.0.1.262: 123 Nodes on one Z-Net

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I've been following this post with interest, as I'm in the same boat as Randy. Some of the posts referred to Blade's plug-in, or the HomeSeer plug-in.

                      Sadly, I'm running Linux, which means that serial port solutions are not available to me. Therefore, EnvisaLink is my only option.

                      How is the performance with EnvisaLink?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by mikedr View Post
                        How is the performance with EnvisaLink?

                        It's great. I couldn't ask for anything more from it.
                        Originally posted by rprade
                        There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          @ Randy,

                          One thing to remember is that only zones 1 - 32 can be wireless devices so you may want to start your wired devices on zone 33 in case you later decide to add wireless door / window sensor. I should also add that the wireless motion sensors have a 3 second delay. This isn't something that you can get around. It's built in to them. So for our purposes they should be avoided.
                          Originally posted by rprade
                          There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by S-F View Post
                            @ Randy,

                            One thing to remember is that only zones 1 - 32 can be wireless devices so you may want to start your wired devices on zone 33 in case you later decide to add wireless door / window sensor. I should also add that the wireless motion sensors have a 3 second delay. This isn't something that you can get around. It's built in to them. So for our purposes they should be avoided.
                            I'm glad you mentioned that, because it is an area of confusion for me that I was going to try to work out when I get the device. The panel I plan on getting is the PC1864. The sprecifications are
                            • 8 on-board zones
                            • Expandable to 64 hardwired zones
                            • Expandable to 64 wireless zones
                            • 4 PGM outputs: expandable to 14 (PC5204, PC5208)
                            • Template programming
                            • Connect up to 8 supervised keypads with keypad zones
                            • 8 partitions
                            • 500-event buffer

                            I called the dealer for confirmation and he said it could handle 64 wired plus 64 wireless zones.

                            The PC1832 specifications say it can handle a "total of 32 wired or wireless zones". There is a fair amount of ambiguity between those two statements.

                            The programming guide is just about as clear as the programming methodology and I haven't read anything to really clarify what is really the case. I have seen statements that the wireless zones must be in the first 32. This statement in the specifications for the RFK5564 keypad may offer some clarification of the ambiguity

                            "This RFK5564 keypad is just like the RFK5500 keypad, but the wireless receiver will allow the Power 1864 version 4.6 panels to be able to accept 64 wireless zones. You can still use this keypad on the 1616 and 1832, and older 1864 systems, but you will only be able to have up to 32 wireless zones. The wireless receiver built into the keypad will only allow the full 64 zones with the 1864 v4.6 panel. If not using the 1864 v4.6 panel, the receiver will only allow 64 wireless zones."

                            That would seem to indicate that the PC1864 (assuming it is v4.6 firmware?) can then handle up to 64 wireless zones along with 64 wired zones. I would really like to know how this affects the programming before I order the panel. I will also confirm that the panel will be a v4.6 before I purchase. The screenshots below from the v4.1 and v4.6 manuals seem to answer part of the question.

                            With regard to motion sensors, I have no desire to go with wireless. I have already wired in all of my PIRs, mostly the inexpensive DSC models, but a couple of the Bosch Tritech units on the driveway. I will probably put in some wired glass break detectors if we decide to go with a full security system.

                            I just put in a whole set of Kidde interconnected smoke, heat and CO detectors. I have the SM120X and CO120X smoke and CO detector relay modules currently tied into Arduinos that I will move to wired zones in the panel.

                            I will use wireless devices for doors and windows because they are reported to last 3-5 years on a single CR2032 battery. I may use a wired switch for the front and back door since they will be subjected to much more activity. For the garage, shed and workshop all of the devices will be wired and I plan to put an expansion board in each location. Right now my maximum wireless zone load is 14-16.
                            Attached Files
                            Randy Prade
                            Aurora, CO
                            Prades.net

                            PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I have an update from a phone call to tech support at the company I plan to purchase from. He seemed very comfortable with the programming and operation of the new version of the PC1864. Who knows if this information is correct?

                              He said the v4.6 panel will handle a total of 64 zones, wired, wireless or hybrid. Further, he said that the wireless zones must be added last and that no wired zones can be added above wireless zones. He said the best bet is to leave wired zones assigned but vacant for future expansion, then add the wireless zones above that point. I don't see ever needing to have more than 64 zones total so this does not present a problem.

                              The problem this seems to present is that I must purchase, assign and include 5 expansion boards if I want to reserve the first 48 for wired. If I don't do that there is no way to allow for future wired expansion.

                              It would be really nice to know exactly how it works for planning, but I cannot seem to find any programming guides for v4.6 boards.
                              Randy Prade
                              Aurora, CO
                              Prades.net

                              PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by sparkman View Post
                                There is also software available for programming and with it you can also backup and restore the config to a new board. It's called DLS and you can find it on this page: https://support.aartech.ca/index.php...mming-software. With it you need a connection to the serial port on the main board. You can build or buy the interface needed: https://www.aartech.ca/pclink-scw-ds...cable-kit.html. I have mine connected to a device server so I can run DLS anywhere on the network.

                                Cheers
                                Al
                                Thanks for that. It sounds like you are saying that you can add serial adapter to the board, connect it to a IP to serial adapter and leave it connected for programming changes without using the keypad. Is that correct?

                                If that is true, it would be much more convenient than programming with the keypad. My understanding is that zone labels are stored in the keypad and that you can make changes to one keypad and "push" the changes out to additional keypads. If so, then it begs the question, does the software push the programming out to all keypads?

                                I just want to try to understand all of the capabilities as well as limitations so that I don't make mistakes building out the system that are difficult to undo later. It seems like these panels were basically designed to be installed in a fully laid out system with little capability for future expansion. For example, is it difficult to add an expansion board 6 months down the road to a working system?
                                Randy Prade
                                Aurora, CO
                                Prades.net

                                PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino

                                Comment

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