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    Better to use Z-Wave occupancy sensor or Ademco motion?

    Hey Guys!

    I don't have this plugin installed yet and am (still) figuring out what I'd like to do when I finally get some time

    I have an Ademco 128bp panel and the AD2USB interface (not installed yet) and have done a little reading and it seems like I can use some Honeywell 5800PIR-RES motion sensors for occupancy type sensors.

    I have 6 of the Intermatic CA9000 Z-Wave occupancy sensors and quite a few of the 5800PIR sensors.

    My initial thoughts are it is best to use the 5800PIR sensors as they can be used with both my alarm panel and home automation. Are there any downsides to doing this? I'm not familiar with the battery life on the CA9000 but do have other wireless Ademco sensors and the battery life is outstanding.

    Anyway, since I don't have any of these installed yet and will be using this plugin, just curious what your suggestions are.. I'm leaning heavily towards the 5800PIRs but thought I'd ask opinions before I went to the trouble of setting everything up then realizing I should have used the CA9000 for whatever reason

    Thanks!!!

    #2
    The CA9000 motions are trash. I have a few in my HA junk pile I'll give you for the cost of shipping and handling. I have been saying that to people for years with no takers because they are trash and nobody wants them.

    As a rule Z-Wave motion sensors don't work as well as their real alarm panel counterparts.
    Originally posted by rprade
    There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Extreme-Z View Post
      Hey Guys!

      I don't have this plugin installed yet and am (still) figuring out what I'd like to do when I finally get some time

      I have an Ademco 128bp panel and the AD2USB interface (not installed yet) and have done a little reading and it seems like I can use some Honeywell 5800PIR-RES motion sensors for occupancy type sensors.

      I have 6 of the Intermatic CA9000 Z-Wave occupancy sensors and quite a few of the 5800PIR sensors.

      My initial thoughts are it is best to use the 5800PIR sensors as they can be used with both my alarm panel and home automation. Are there any downsides to doing this? I'm not familiar with the battery life on the CA9000 but do have other wireless Ademco sensors and the battery life is outstanding.

      Anyway, since I don't have any of these installed yet and will be using this plugin, just curious what your suggestions are.. I'm leaning heavily towards the 5800PIRs but thought I'd ask opinions before I went to the trouble of setting everything up then realizing I should have used the CA9000 for whatever reason

      Thanks!!!
      Your thinking (regarding the 5800's) is sound. They'll serve double-duty to work with your Alarm panel and then, via the AD2USB, they'll work with HomeSeer too.

      As S-F says, the CA9000 is a breathtakingly terrible sensor. If you have a rifle handy and a slow-motion camera, you could line them up in a row and dispatch them with one well-placed round. That would get you a lot of views on YouTube. I'd watch it!
      💁‍♂️ Support & Customer Service 🙋‍♂️ Sales Questions 🛒 Shop HomeSeer Products

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by S-F View Post
        The CA9000 motions are trash. I have a few in my HA junk pile I'll give you for the cost of shipping and handling. I have been saying that to people for years with no takers because they are trash and nobody wants them.
        Hey S-F, I may take you up on that offer I'm looking for some cases for some home-brew sensors that I'm whipping up so might gut them and just use the cases.

        I'll PM you my address to see what the shipping/handling cost would be. How many do you have?

        Cheers
        Al
        HS 4.2.8.0: 2134 Devices 1252 Events
        Z-Wave 3.0.10.0: 133 Nodes on one Z-Net

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by sparkman View Post
          Hey S-F, I may take you up on that offer I'm looking for some cases for some home-brew sensors that I'm whipping up so might gut them and just use the cases.

          I'll PM you my address to see what the shipping/handling cost would be. How many do you have?

          Cheers
          Al

          I think I have 2. I can't promise ATM that I have the mount for them but I can check. Handling would just be any odd special fees to ship to Canada. Otherwise shipping these things would not only help me get rid of useless HA junk but also some Amazon boxes.
          Originally posted by rprade
          There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

          Comment


            #6
            LOL!

            Well this is about as blunt and straight forward of an answer as one could expect! hahahaa

            Thanks, guys I'll not even mess with the CA9000 sensors then.

            A bit bummed about the over $100 I spent on them but I'll look on the bright side in that I kept them new in the box and didn't spend time messing around with them!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by macromark View Post
              If you have a rifle handy and a slow-motion camera, you could line them up in a row and dispatch them with one well-placed round. That would get you a lot of views on YouTube. I'd watch it!
              If I can't sell them to somebody who has a use for a not so great sensor, I just might do that! Ever heard of a SlideFire stock on an AR15? Well, I'll get a few of us together and see what 90 rounds in about 2 seconds does to the pile of them

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Extreme-Z View Post
                Hey Guys!

                I don't have this plugin installed yet and am (still) figuring out what I'd like to do when I finally get some time

                I have an Ademco 128bp panel and the AD2USB interface (not installed yet) and have done a little reading and it seems like I can use some Honeywell 5800PIR-RES motion sensors for occupancy type sensors.

                I have 6 of the Intermatic CA9000 Z-Wave occupancy sensors and quite a few of the 5800PIR sensors.

                My initial thoughts are it is best to use the 5800PIR sensors as they can be used with both my alarm panel and home automation. Are there any downsides to doing this? I'm not familiar with the battery life on the CA9000 but do have other wireless Ademco sensors and the battery life is outstanding.

                Anyway, since I don't have any of these installed yet and will be using this plugin, just curious what your suggestions are.. I'm leaning heavily towards the 5800PIRs but thought I'd ask opinions before I went to the trouble of setting everything up then realizing I should have used the CA9000 for whatever reason

                Thanks!!!
                Hey E-Z

                The 5800PIR are great sensors, both for security and for triggering occupancy. Their batteries last for 2 years or so even in heavy areas and I've never had any false or missed triggers whatsoever! The downside is just that they have slight delay (maybe around 0.5s) and you can't set their auto-off time; but I use them with virtual device (eg: if 5800 is faulted, turn on virtual device, and when 5800 has been normal for 5minutes, then turn off virtual device) and they've been nothing but reliable with that setup.

                Did you know that if you just want to use RF device for motion triggers (and not trigger security zones) then you don't need to setup it with the ademco panel at all? Just create an RF device in the hs3 plugin right away.

                Btw, do you plan to use Vplex devices on your 128bp? Those should yield much better response time and their single-cabled serial bus should simplify cable installation by quite a bit... but not supported to be interfaced to HS3 yet.
                HW: HS3 w/ Win8.1 on ASRock C2550d4i. Digi AnywhereUSB, Hubport, Edgeport, UZB, Z-trollers, PLCBUS, SONOS, GC-100, iTach IP2SL, WF2IR, IP2IR, RFXtrx433, Harmony Hubs, Hue, Ademco Vista 128BP, NetAtmo, NetAtmo Welcome

                Google Search for HomeSeer Forum

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by LeoS View Post
                  Hey E-Z

                  The 5800PIR are great sensors, both for security and for triggering occupancy. Their batteries last for 2 years or so even in heavy areas and I've never had any false or missed triggers whatsoever! The downside is just that they have slight delay (maybe around 0.5s) and you can't set their auto-off time; but I use them with virtual device (eg: if 5800 is faulted, turn on virtual device, and when 5800 has been normal for 5minutes, then turn off virtual device) and they've been nothing but reliable with that setup.

                  Did you know that if you just want to use RF device for motion triggers (and not trigger security zones) then you don't need to setup it with the ademco panel at all? Just create an RF device in the hs3 plugin right away.

                  Btw, do you plan to use Vplex devices on your 128bp? Those should yield much better response time and their single-cabled serial bus should simplify cable installation by quite a bit... but not supported to be interfaced to HS3 yet.
                  That is great info, thank you!

                  I don't know much at all about this. I used HSPRO2 just for very basic stuff and bought HSPRO3 during the beta but have been so busy with work that I never got around to installing it. I'm at the point that I really want to get this done... I've bought a bit of stuff and it is all sitting in boxes. ARGH! I got a new computer and have a Z-Net on the way (figured if I'm starting from scratch with the whole works might as well start off right!) so am really looking forward to starting to get my long term project going

                  I'll try to read up on virtual devices a bit... I *think* I understand what you are saying but probably need to actually install HS3 and just play around to get a better grasp. Would you be able to post a screen shot of how you do this virtual device on and off?

                  I do have some vplex stuff but don't have it installed (like most my other projects... about 10% started LOL). Since this plugin doesn't support this, I'll probably stick to the RF sensors. I have aquired a good number of them over the years and it looks like it'll be a lot of fun incorporating them into the alarm system as well as HS.

                  I had no idea I wouldn't need to setup the sensors in the panel if I wanted to use them only for HS??? How does HS know the status of the sensor if the sensor isn't seen or setup in the panel? I have a 5881ENH that my wireless stuff communicates through to the panel. It sounds like you are saying a sensor doesn't even need to be setup in the panel for the AD2USB to "pick it up" and pass the info to HS? If that is the case, can a person use more than the 64 wireless zones allowed by the 5881ENH? If not, not a huge deal because I have more 5881s. LOL

                  Thanks much for the info! If things go well for me and I can get some time away from work you'll be seeing me in here much more as I figure all this out. hahahaa

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Extreme-Z View Post
                    That is great info, thank you!

                    I don't know much at all about this. I used HSPRO2 just for very basic stuff and bought HSPRO3 during the beta but have been so busy with work that I never got around to installing it. I'm at the point that I really want to get this done... I've bought a bit of stuff and it is all sitting in boxes. ARGH! I got a new computer and have a Z-Net on the way (figured if I'm starting from scratch with the whole works might as well start off right!) so am really looking forward to starting to get my long term project going
                    Lol i think we can all relate to that!
                    I'm only starting with the install of whole-house voice recognition project which i've purchased few years back... and the devices are now already outdated (by a couple of generation), that i'm now back to waiting for the newer versions to arrive here to properly continue that project.

                    I'll try to read up on virtual devices a bit... I *think* I understand what you are saying but probably need to actually install HS3 and just play around to get a better grasp. Would you be able to post a screen shot of how you do this virtual device on and off?
                    Sure. Basically these rf motion device triggers/faults quickly and returns to normal within 5-10seconds ready to be faulted again. If we directly connect the fault-normal signal to our lights, it'll be like a techno light show or something! So we connect a virtual device (say we call it 'roomA_is_occupied') to the light switch instead... we set it to turn on as soon as the rf motion sensor faults, BUT we set it to turn off X minutes from the LAST time the motion sensor goes back to normal.

                    It uses multiple events, i think there are already posts about it somewhere. I'll link it to you when i get back to desktop.

                    You can use multiple triggers for determining occupancy too al connected to the same virtual occupancy switch (door sensor, multiple pirs, sound triggers, etc), and its neater to understand and troubleshoot this way.

                    I do have some vplex stuff but don't have it installed (like most my other projects... about 10% started LOL). Since this plugin doesn't support this, I'll probably stick to the RF sensors. I have aquired a good number of them over the years and it looks like it'll be a lot of fun incorporating them into the alarm system as well as HS.
                    I'm in contact with Sean (developer of AD2USB, nutech) and they've scheduled the vplex feature in a few months. Fingers crossed.

                    I had no idea I wouldn't need to setup the sensors in the panel if I wanted to use them only for HS??? How does HS know the status of the sensor if the sensor isn't seen or setup in the panel? I have a 5881ENH that my wireless stuff communicates through to the panel. It sounds like you are saying a sensor doesn't even need to be setup in the panel for the AD2USB to "pick it up" and pass the info to HS? If that is the case, can a person use more than the 64 wireless zones allowed by the 5881ENH? If not, not a huge deal because I have more 5881s. LOL
                    Yup, that's exactly it. AD2USB listens to the raw communication of the ademco panel, which shows all (afaik non encrypted) RF signals.

                    Thanks much for the info! If things go well for me and I can get some time away from work you'll be seeing me in here much more as I figure all this out. hahahaa
                    Np
                    HW: HS3 w/ Win8.1 on ASRock C2550d4i. Digi AnywhereUSB, Hubport, Edgeport, UZB, Z-trollers, PLCBUS, SONOS, GC-100, iTach IP2SL, WF2IR, IP2IR, RFXtrx433, Harmony Hubs, Hue, Ademco Vista 128BP, NetAtmo, NetAtmo Welcome

                    Google Search for HomeSeer Forum

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by LeoS View Post
                      Lol i think we can all relate to that!
                      I'm only starting with the install of whole-house voice recognition project which i've purchased few years back... and the devices are now already outdated (by a couple of generation), that i'm now back to waiting for the newer versions to arrive here to properly continue that project.
                      LOL! I'm in the same boat... I bought a Shure SCM810 I think it was for a good deal and some of the expensive mics. Wouldn't you know it... never got around to installing it. Now, it seems like the way to go is to use the Kinects. I bought 5 of those for around $20 each but guess what... yep, those still in the box too.

                      Sure. Basically these rf motion device triggers/faults quickly and returns to normal within 5-10seconds ready to be faulted again. If we directly connect the fault-normal signal to our lights, it'll be like a techno light show or something! So we connect a virtual device (say we call it 'roomA_is_occupied') to the light switch instead... we set it to turn on as soon as the rf motion sensor faults, BUT we set it to turn off X minutes from the LAST time the motion sensor goes back to normal.

                      It uses multiple events, i think there are already posts about it somewhere. I'll link it to you when i get back to desktop.

                      You can use multiple triggers for determining occupancy too al connected to the same virtual occupancy switch (door sensor, multiple pirs, sound triggers, etc), and its neater to understand and troubleshoot this way.
                      Sounds good! I'm sure once I get HS3 loaded and play around in there a bit that it'll come together for me pretty nice. Girlfriend leaves fans on all the time in the house. I want to use these motion sensors to turn fans off when not in use then a backup to turn all the house fans off (live in FL and have a ceiling fan in every room) if the alarm is armed AWAY. Seems like that should be fairly easy to accomplish while at the same time I don't have to bring it up anymore asking to turn off the fans if not being in the room. Win win with no hard feelings. LOL

                      I'm in contact with Sean (developer of AD2USB, nutech) and they've scheduled the vplex feature in a few months. Fingers crossed.
                      That's killer! I have some vplex stuff then bought a box of stuff that had a bunch of gizmos to turn regular sensors into vplex sensors. I have several hard wired sensors I could use then as well but probably won't need to if the 5800PIRs work out ok because I have a ton of those and you saying they work very well does put a nice smile on my face!

                      Yup, that's exactly it. AD2USB listens to the raw communication of the ademco panel, which shows all (afaik non encrypted) RF signals.
                      Sweet! I have probably close to 100 of the 5800PIRs (bought all at once fairly cheap!) and could really do some cool stuff. I may never need to touch another light switch in my house again. LOL

                      With some voice recognition using the Amazon Echo and/or the Kinects and these 5800PIRs I'm thinking of ways to really be able to control how stuff works. For instance, I could really automate the lighting but then there are times when you may not want this "feature" and if that's the case you could do a voice command to "Turn off house auto lighting" and then the lights wouldn't come on when you walked into an area. Stuff like that

                      Thanks for the tips!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Extreme-Z View Post
                        If I can't sell them to somebody who has a use for a not so great sensor, I just might do that! Ever heard of a SlideFire stock on an AR15? Well, I'll get a few of us together and see what 90 rounds in about 2 seconds does to the pile of them
                        just saw a video of that; that's an expensive 3 seconds! Remember, we need a slow-mo camera too!
                        💁‍♂️ Support & Customer Service 🙋‍♂️ Sales Questions 🛒 Shop HomeSeer Products

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Extreme-Z View Post
                          LOL! I'm in the same boat... I bought a Shure SCM810 I think it was for a good deal and some of the expensive mics. Wouldn't you know it... never got around to installing it. Now, it seems like the way to go is to use the Kinects. I bought 5 of those for around $20 each but guess what... yep, those still in the box too.
                          Kinect has its advantage as a VR platform (not to mention that Spud is a great plugin developer w/ great support and innovative features), but I'm still putting my money on Gentner (XAP800) powered system for whole-house VR+Announcement system I still want to use Kinect for occupancy in seating areas though...

                          That's killer! I have some vplex stuff then bought a box of stuff that had a bunch of gizmos to turn regular sensors into vplex sensors. I have several hard wired sensors I could use then as well but probably won't need to if the 5800PIRs work out ok because I have a ton of those and you saying they work very well does put a nice smile on my face!

                          Sweet! I have probably close to 100 of the 5800PIRs (bought all at once fairly cheap!) and could really do some cool stuff. I may never need to touch another light switch in my house again. LOL
                          Holy crap, that's a lot of batteries to change (every 2+years anyway)
                          The 128BP supports 127 wireless devices I think. Don't forget that smoke detectors take up zone slots too.

                          With some voice recognition using the Amazon Echo and/or the Kinects and these 5800PIRs I'm thinking of ways to really be able to control how stuff works. For instance, I could really automate the lighting but then there are times when you may not want this "feature" and if that's the case you could do a voice command to "Turn off house auto lighting" and then the lights wouldn't come on when you walked into an area. Stuff like that
                          Yeah, accurate occupancy is still tricky at times. Some ppl issue commands to the system via special lightswitch combo (ie: ON-OFF-ON, will turn off the room's auto light off), some with bluetooth devices, some with nfc tags, rfid tags, kinect (best one probably, but limited area and you'll need a windows pc for each kinect)..

                          Thanks for the tips!
                          No problem!
                          HW: HS3 w/ Win8.1 on ASRock C2550d4i. Digi AnywhereUSB, Hubport, Edgeport, UZB, Z-trollers, PLCBUS, SONOS, GC-100, iTach IP2SL, WF2IR, IP2IR, RFXtrx433, Harmony Hubs, Hue, Ademco Vista 128BP, NetAtmo, NetAtmo Welcome

                          Google Search for HomeSeer Forum

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