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Thermostats for UK - large system Horstmann HRT4-ZW heatmiser PRT-TS

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  • Thermostats for UK - large system Horstmann HRT4-ZW heatmiser PRT-TS

    Hi,

    I am hoping someone can help.

    I want to interface a heating system with 8 zones into Homeseer HS3 Pro.

    I am UK based, running HS3 Pro virtualised in hyper V. Finally stable running x10, currentcost, Sonos, Weather XML, Netcam and Zwave for plug in devices/lights only. My ZWave is 3.0.0.150 and HS3 Pro is 3.0.0.96. It took a while to get to the stage after leaving HS2 behind.

    I do have 3 Horstmann HRT4-ZW stats on 3 zones that I have tried and failed to get working in homeseer via zwave and also tried BLstat. I have followed many threads but cannot get the thermostats to report setpoints or actual temperature. I can get HS to turn the boiler switch on/off but that's about it. The problem with running these stats without HS is there is no timer. I was hoping to use HS to change the setpoints at various times of the day.

    Additionally I have a heatmiser PRT-TS that works fine via wifi/web browser or app but no known interface to homeseer. However given it is IP based and there is an API this must be interfacable somehow.

    Ideally I would like to stick with zwave/horstmann but I have spent 20 hours plus on this with no luck. Should I carry on or wait for someone to interface a wifi stat into homeseer ?

    I would like to avoid serial stats due to virtual running of HS if possible.

    Any ideas would be appreciate particularly is you have Horstmann working with HS3 Pro as this would be my lowest cost route.

    Bear in mind I will have to purchase 8 thermostats which is a large investment and I want stability. Ideally something that will work if homeseer ever fails.

    Any help much appreciated. I am sure it must be possible to get either wifi or z wave stats working in the UK for HS3 Pro!

    Forgot to add zwave controller is an Aeon Labs Z stick running over a USB network hub) works fine for zwave lights/plugs)

    I would also like to put 3-4 zwave tankstats on my thermal store that controls the heating. any recommendations for tank stats that will work with HS3 pro ?
    Last edited by largejj; October 6th, 2014, 05:24 AM. Reason: more information

  • #2
    Hi,

    I've struggled with the Horstmann thermostats and HS3 too. I've sort of gotten one working, but it's all a bit unsatisfactory having to wait for polling cycles in order to set the setpoint and wait for it to update in HS3 so you know it's 'taken'. I've got a reasonably decent script that works ok, but the schedule is set in the script at the moment, no nice GUI or even an ini file.

    I've been thinking about giving up on it, and looking for an alternative. I only have 2 zones to worry about, though, so it's a bit cheaper potentially for me!

    Things I have been thinking about:
    1) Leave existing programmable (Heatmiser actually, but that's irrelevant) thermostat in place, but progammed for a worst case 'if HS breaks' scenario (i.e. cooler than you'd ever normally have it). Then use my existing (and very reliable) 1Wire temperature sensors and bog-standard Z-Wave mains switches in parallel with the 240V side of the existing thermostat zones to layer HS control on top. I did confirm with Heatmiser that this would be ok and wouldn't blow the Heatmiser thermostat up!

    2) Same with leaving the existing thermostat in place, but using ZWave radiator valves per room (the StellaZ ones seem the best bet at the moment).

    3) Going for something like Nest, use it's in-built control to get decent control of the house heating and just use HS3 via plugin to see what it's doing in a read-only type fashion.

    But nothing is jumping out at me yet. :-( I am quite reluctant to go for anything that depends solely on a PC or even on wifi as I would hate to be left in a freezing cold house because the PC is down or my router fails...

    I'll be really interested to see if anyone else has come up with any good solutions for us in the UK!!!

    Cheers,

    Jon.

    Comment


    • #3
      I am in exactly the same boat.
      I have 5 Horstmann thermostats and eventually there will be 7 of them.
      With some HS3 zwave plugin beta versions they sort of work (I don't recall which versions exactly). But as Jon states, you have to wait two wakeup cycles to get the setpoint over. If you want to get your setpoint to the thermostat in a reasonable time then your wakeup intervall has to be as low as possible. This clutters your z-wave network and drains your Horstmann's batteries. Even when this ever gets fixed and HS3 would be able to send over your setpoint in the first wakeup cycle, and it would be rock solid than there still is an other problem. And this is that the setpoint value in HS3 is changed back to the original value until the Horstmann accepts the new value. This looks like a good thing but It leads to an anoing problem. When you use remote apps like InControl or even HSTouch to change the setpoint value with a + or - the old value plus or minus 1 degree will be queued for the thermostat to pick up on the next wakup cycle. In the mean time HS3 puts the original value back, which is then displayed trough HSTouch or InControl. Therefor you will have to wait until the Horstmann wakes before you can see the new setpoint value. This means that you can change your setpoint only by 1 degree per wakeup cycle since pushing the + or - over and over again only results in the adition of 1 degree on the old setpoint value.
      I constantly hope that things like this will be resolved so I can use HS3 to properly control my HVAC system.
      I worst case I will purchase a Vera lite just to control my Thermostats. But that would mean two separate systems to maintain so this is my last resort.
      Last edited by martinisoft; October 6th, 2014, 07:51 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi

        I have five of these Horstmann devices in my own home and they kinda work OK. O only bought them as they were about the only thing I could find on the UK market that I could integrate with HS without having to run a bunch of wires.

        That said I'm fed up with them and have long been considering writing a plug-in for Heatmiser. I need to have a decent solution for the work I do for my customers and HeatMiser seems like a good solution for the UK market.

        I don't have a HeatMiser system to test with though so I'm lacking the basics even if I wrote a plug-in based on the API spec.

        So, if any of you current HeatMiser owners are interested I would be willing to write a plug-in (which I would ultimately launch as a paid plug-in in the store), if you are willing to work as testers?
        Nicolai L

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        • #5
          I'd certainly be interested. The only sticking point is my HeatMiser isn't Ethernet/wifi capable (it's a 2-zone wired model). :-(

          I don't think there's an equivalent 2-zone Wi-Fi model I could upgrade to.

          One thing I would say about the HeatMisers is that their UI isn't all that slick, it can be a bit 'clunky' to use. But on the other hand, once it's set up there's not much 'using' to do! I can't speak for their newer 'Neo' range, though. And I guess this issue goes away if integrated with HS3...

          I had a very quick look as the Salus range - they look fairly decent, but not sure how open they are for integration.

          I have got one last option I'm looking to try when I get some spare time: Add a 3V power supply to the HRT-4ZW and try and make it an always-on device. There's a setup option to stop the ZWave sleeping from memory, then removing and re-adding to HS3 just might make it work as we want???

          Cheers,

          Jon.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yeah, I looked at the wired version in the past. I'd certainly want the plug-in to work for both WiFi and wired versions.

            I have existing customers (on HS2) that have HeatMiser systems and they asked me to take a look at them in the past, and I agree with you, the UI is not great!

            I've requested access to the APIs from HeatMiser, let's see how I get on.
            Nicolai L

            Comment


            • #7
              There is some perl code knocking about to talk to the Heatmiser thermostats if anyone wants to decode that (I looked at it and it looks a little confusing so I would hope the API is much easier to talk to), I was going to request access to their API and look at a potential plugin but not having one of the thermostats (I was looking at a future change) thought better of it as writing for no hardware is not fun. Tado is another one that looks promising and I think they were releasing an API.
              My Plugins:

              Pushover 3P | DoorBird 3P | Current Cost 3P | Velleman K8055 3P | LAMetric 3P | Garadget 3P | Hive 3P |
              Yeelight 3P | Nanoleaf 3P

              Comment


              • #8

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just to add my thoughts on the Horstmann zwave stats regarding relibability, I have created my own zone system using five of them which are directly associated with duwi switches that control the underfloor heating valves. This is absolutely rock sollit. Since direct association is used I am not relying on a controller for my zone system to function. The thing is that I want to add value to the system by being able to remotely control the zones with my smartphone, or put a heating schema in my controller. This is where the combination between HS3 and Horstmann is just to unreliable. So if you ask me, don't just write off your zwave stats just jet but make sure you do not rely on a controller for basic functionality. And lets just hope that HS3 is going to be able to do the more advanced stuff in a decent way in the future. If that is not the case you could use a different controller to control your zone system.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yes my zwave stats are reliable stat to boiler switch (zoned valves in my case) but there is no programmer/clock so they are not efficient without homeseer or another zwave controller at all.

                    At least with the heatmiser wifi stats there is a timer clock function so they will run without homeseer and be able to turn the heating off overnight etc. Maybe one day if an interface works I could then link to occupancy/smart phones etc and get some efficiency.
                    Last edited by largejj; October 6th, 2014, 04:32 PM. Reason: Update

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just had confirmation from homeseer support

                      "These stats do not work well with HomeSeer 3 so we do not recommend them at this time."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It is nice of HS support to "Not Recommend" these at this time. But it would also be nice if they could take in to account the fact that we in Europe do not have an alternative. This stat worked in HS2 and works in other controllers so it should be possible to get it right in HS3.
                        Did you already look at the Secure SCS317? this one is programmable and from what I could find the z-wave part of it is exactly the same as the HRT4-ZW.

                        I realy like the heatmisers by the way, but for me running wires to every room is not an option at the moment. I need my stats to be battery powered and wireless.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I saw this discussion and I thought, let's give some good news about it from my end.

                          I have a few Horstman HRT4-ZW thermostats (also known as the Secure SRT321) and in Europe there is no good alternative from a Z-Wave and/or Price point of view. HVAC in general is not really a dynamic system, the changing values in temperature are pritty slow. I controll the thermostats with the BLstat plugin and must say after some startup problems it is working as a charm. the wake-up interval is set to 6 minutes or so and is sufficient, setpoints are set immediately when they wake up, manually and via schemetics.

                          The lack of support on them from HS wonders me and although I have still an open Bug report on HRT4-ZW, I am very pleased with the thermostats.

                          Regards,

                          Redbull

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hello Redbull,

                            Thank you for sharing your success story.
                            Can you tell us which version of HS3 and Zwave Plugin your are currently using? It would be great if I can get this one stable.

                            thanks in advance,

                            Martijn.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Redbull,

                              Thanks for the positive news. I too would be interested in which HS3 Pro version and which version of Zwave you are using. Also which Z wave hardware ?

                              My limited success is to get homeseer controlling 2 out of 3 boiler switches but I cannot get zwave/homeseer to create the thermostat devices with setpoints/battery levels etc. I agree it must be an issue with HS3/zwave version (probably with current live versions that I am on), as HS2 used to work with them.

                              Wireless would be easier for me rather than cabling up 8 stats, but not at the expense of reliability. If I can get zwave reliable I can live with 6 minute polling intervals (just) as it saves me running cables!

                              I am also still really interested in a heatmiser plugin.

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