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  • swanie2000
    replied
    Originally posted by nfrobertson View Post
    I just released 3.0.0.7 which changes the plug-in specific action for "Change Heat SetPoint" and "Change Cool SetPoint" by adding an optional adjustment field. Now you can either set a specific value or a +/- change for the setpoint. I think this this will probably resolve your event need. I'd suggest you use a -2 but experimentation will show what's needed.

    I also added this ability to the script API and included a couple example lines in scripts/InsteonThermostat_script_api.vb
    Been a while since I could come back to this.
    Just wanted to let you know the new version and the new adjustments seem to work well.

    Thanks for the quick update to solve my problem!

    Leave a comment:


  • nfrobertson
    replied
    I just released 3.0.0.7 which changes the plug-in specific action for "Change Heat SetPoint" and "Change Cool SetPoint" by adding an optional adjustment field. Now you can either set a specific value or a +/- change for the setpoint. I think this this will probably resolve your event need. I'd suggest you use a -2 but experimentation will show what's needed.

    I also added this ability to the script API and included a couple example lines in scripts/InsteonThermostat_script_api.vb

    Leave a comment:


  • swanie2000
    replied
    Yes, I think that new action you propose would be a nice addition to all the rest of the abilities of the plugin.

    Only other thing that I think would be a nice change, is if instead of "Cool" & "Heat" it could say "Cool SP" & "Heat SP". I think it would read better(more clearly) what is happening when you are including the set points it in an event.

    I will go experiment with the other actions you mentioned, and see what I can come up with. For now, the +- 1 set point solution along with a pause for traffic, should do the job I need.

    Thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • nfrobertson
    replied
    The WAF factor is critical!

    A one step up or down is achievable with the current implementation assuming the thermostat is in a compatible mode. I assume that's maybe some of the problem we've run into here.

    Up to now you've been using standard HS3 "Control a Device" actions. There are also special Actions provided by the Insteon Thermostat plugin. Scroll down the actions list and find those that start with "Insteon Thermostat:" Right now the actions mirror what Tom had in his HS2 Sage plugin. They currently allow for changing the Mode, Fan, Hold/Run, and also setting a cool or heat setpoint to a specific value. Unfortunately this still doesn't help with what you're trying to do.

    What I propose is adding a new plug-in specific action that can do a temp up/down and provide the increment, defaulting to 1. So, when you push your keypadlinc, you get a single action that works in heat/cool/auto modes and increments/decrements the setpoints by a value. I'd suggest 2 for your described use.

    I think that type of action could work for your other case. Schedule an event in the morning when you leave for work to do a TempDown by 5 and another in the afternoon for TempUp by 5.

    Thoughts?

    Leave a comment:


  • swanie2000
    replied
    I really don't think the upgrade on the insteon plugin has improved anything, as I have always been able to increment the set point via the "DEVICES" screen, and it would update correctly on the WDU.

    The manually triggered event, is pretty much the same as manually pressing the "+" button on the devices screen, and it pretty much works the same netting the same results.

    I agree, it is highly unlikely I will want to press the button 10 times in a row. This was done during testing, but not likely in normal practice.

    The feature I am trying to achieve is a simple 1 step either up or down, via the headboard keypad link. Your lying in bed, it's a little warm, you look at the keypad link and press the temp down button, it lights up, then in a second or two, it turns back off. You didn't hear the AC kick on yet, so another press on the down button, again the lights goes back off, but you then hear the AC system kick on, you think "AAAHHH, the joys of home automation", and then you go back to sleep! This has a huge WAF!

    We have proven the signals are getting lost in the insteon traffic that this event is creating. Originally, I was asking it to +1 both the heat and cool set points, but have since removed that extra step, reducing the insteon traffic to the thermostat.

    It does appear, I should delay the turning off the keypad button light, a few seconds to allow the thermostat to communicate with HS3. That is as simple as adding a wait 5 seconds command. I will implement this, and hope for the best.


    My only other automation need with the thermostat is in the mornings, after both my wife and I have left for work, there is no need to have the upstairs AC running. I will want to add 5 steps up from where ever it is currently set at, after we leave for work, and then 5 steps back down about 30 minutes prior to us getting home. Trying to save on some power here.

    I can do this very slowly with HS3, with multiple wait commands. But the more I use the +- set point commands, the more likely it will miss a step here or there. Is there a better way I can do this?

    Leave a comment:


  • nfrobertson
    replied
    For example, I tried to have HS3 do something like this:
    IF master bedroom controller button 8 temp up changes and becomes on
    and IF upstairs thermostat is in cool mode
    THEN increment the upstairs cool set point up one degree.

    I could build 4 events like this,(plus another 4 events for the downstairs unit) but no matter how I configured it, I was not able to get HS3 to respect the second IF command?
    I went back through your posts and found where you describe your original test. I then created my own test event now based on a real Insteon switch and a test for the thermostat mode. I think this looks close to what you were trying to do?




    With my T1700 in AUTO mode, I turned the switch on. You can see that in the log. No HS3 event fired and that's correct. I turned the switch back off. I then pushed the mode button four times on the T1700 going from Auto to Prog to Off to Heat to Cool. The log noted that the thermostat sent me an Insteon message for the switch to Prog and then again with the final setting of Cool. I then turned the switch on again. This time HS3 fired the event as it met the device On and the thermostat mode is Cool test. The plug-in sent the [6C] command and I can confirm my T1700 did increase the cool setpoint 1 degree. I believe this is what you were trying to achieve?

    Below is the log, read from bottom up:

    Mar-30 4:09:39 PM Insteon Received 03.0A.62:1 (Insteon Test Switch) Go OFF
    Mar-30 4:09:39 PM Insteon Received message from Insteon Test Switch (03.0A.62) taking hops: 1
    Mar-30 4:07:32 PM Insteon Thermostat TransmitInsteon: [T1700] [1F] [6C] [A4] ((([00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [F0])))
    Mar-30 4:07:32 PM Insteon Thermostat SetCoolSetpoint: T1700 Cool SetPoint = 82
    Mar-30 4:07:32 PM Device Control Device: Thermostats Insteon T1700 Cool to + (251)
    Mar-30 4:07:32 PM Event Event Trigger "TSTAT HS events test actions"
    Mar-30 4:07:32 PM Insteon Received 03.0A.62:1 (Insteon Test Switch) Go ON
    Mar-30 4:07:32 PM Insteon Received message from Insteon Test Switch (03.0A.62) taking hops: 1
    Mar-30 4:06:53 PM Insteon Thermostat T1700 [02] Mode=Cool Fan=Auto
    Mar-30 4:06:48 PM Insteon Thermostat T1700 [04] Mode=Program Fan=Auto
    Mar-30 4:06:36 PM Insteon Received 03.0A.62:1 (Insteon Test Switch) Go OFF
    Mar-30 4:06:36 PM Insteon Received message from Insteon Test Switch (03.0A.62) taking hops: 1
    Mar-30 4:06:08 PM Insteon Received 03.0A.62:1 (Insteon Test Switch) Go ON
    Mar-30 4:06:08 PM Insteon Received message from Insteon Test Switch (03.0A.62) taking hops: 1

    Leave a comment:


  • nfrobertson
    replied
    Ok, I just read your 2nd post while I was composing this post. Before I get into the longer description of your test below, it sounds like we think you have a better working system possibly due to upgrading Mark's Insteon plugin for HS3 ? I agree that all the Insteon traffic of all the +1 isn't helping you arrive at the desired result.

    Let's talk about what you want to ultimately see happen, your real "use case" here. Are you really trying to achieve a +10 cool setpoint increase from one event firing or is the +10 just testing communications? You should be able to achieve a single +1 reliably and I thought that was the original goal. However, if the goal is really something larger than +1 and you currently don't have a way to do that other than sending multiple +1 then maybe I can help you figure out a solution?


    Longer description on the "step back"

    I'm glad you can produce these results as they do make sense to me. The "step back" is due to the thermostat reporting it's status back to the plugin in an Insteon ACK message. It's basically saying (ACK'ing) that it got your message(s) and here's the current thermostat cool setpoint value right now, at that moment in time. I know this by this line in the debug which comes from the Insteon receive logic:

    Code:
    3/30/2014 1:36:43 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ INFO ~ Upstairs Cool SetPoint = 80
    I don't know the exact timing the thermostat firmware uses but basically once you send the "set cool setpoint to value x" [6C] [9C] for example, then it waits a few seconds and sends an ACK back with the current cool setpoint value. If you are repeatedly sending more "set cool setpoint to value x", like this test is doing, then it seems to gather several together and after a several seconds ACKs back what it determined the value to finally be at that moment. Since this is continuing over 25 seconds, with multiple rapid +1 adjustments, I'm not surprised to see that "step back" happen.

    So, in general use, someone might push the + button 2 or 3 times in quick succession and the thermostat will ACK back the expected final result.
    Last edited by nfrobertson; March 30, 2014, 05:13 PM. Reason: typo

    Leave a comment:


  • swanie2000
    replied
    Now, again, when I use insteon to trigger the set point change as I did before, I am getting about 50% of the steps.

    Meaning I set the thermostat to 77, hit the up button to trigger the event that then steps up the set point 10 times, with about 5 seconds between each press. I end up with 82 on the WDU, not 87 as it should be.

    An interesting note, the device screen reported 86, and the WDU reported 82.
    One down press on the WDU took it to 81, and then the device screen updated correctly, to say 81 also.

    Maybe the device screen should not be manually updated, as this can cause the mix-match of values we are seeing? Maybe it should just poll from the thermostat when ever it needs to be refreshed?

    I believe the extra insteon traffic is causing the problem.

    I am going to try to figure out the script approach, but I have very little skills writing scripts for HS2, much less HS3.

    Leave a comment:


  • swanie2000
    replied
    I updated my insteon plugin to the latest version, and changed my event to be manually fired. Yes, to reduce the number of possibilities, I have now placed my thermostat WDU in COOL mode, and I am only trying to step up the cool set point.

    Here is a quick shot of the debug log. In this time, I ran a manual event, that stepped up the cool set point 1 degree each time I clicked on the event.


    3/30/2014 1:36:33 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ INFO ~ SetCoolSetpoint: Upstairs Cool SetPoint = 78
    3/30/2014 1:36:33 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ DEBUG ~ TransmitInsteon: [Upstairs] [1F] [6C] [9C] ((([00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [F8])))
    3/30/2014 1:36:36 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ INFO ~ SetCoolSetpoint: Upstairs Cool SetPoint = 79
    3/30/2014 1:36:36 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ DEBUG ~ TransmitInsteon: [Upstairs] [1F] [6C] [9E] ((([00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [F6])))
    3/30/2014 1:36:40 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ INFO ~ SetCoolSetpoint: Upstairs Cool SetPoint = 80
    3/30/2014 1:36:40 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ DEBUG ~ TransmitInsteon: [Upstairs] [1F] [6C] [A0] ((([00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [F4])))
    3/30/2014 1:36:42 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ INFO ~ SetCoolSetpoint: Upstairs Cool SetPoint = 81
    3/30/2014 1:36:42 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ DEBUG ~ TransmitInsteon: [Upstairs] [1F] [6C] [A2] ((([00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [F2])))
    3/30/2014 1:36:43 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ INFO ~ Upstairs Cool SetPoint = 80
    3/30/2014 1:36:45 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ INFO ~ SetCoolSetpoint: Upstairs Cool SetPoint = 81
    3/30/2014 1:36:45 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ DEBUG ~ TransmitInsteon: [Upstairs] [1F] [6C] [A2] ((([00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [F2])))
    3/30/2014 1:36:47 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ INFO ~ SetCoolSetpoint: Upstairs Cool SetPoint = 82
    3/30/2014 1:36:47 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ DEBUG ~ TransmitInsteon: [Upstairs] [1F] [6C] [A4] ((([00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [F0])))
    3/30/2014 1:36:50 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ INFO ~ SetCoolSetpoint: Upstairs Cool SetPoint = 83
    3/30/2014 1:36:50 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ DEBUG ~ TransmitInsteon: [Upstairs] [1F] [6C] [A6] ((([00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [EE])))
    3/30/2014 1:36:53 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ INFO ~ SetCoolSetpoint: Upstairs Cool SetPoint = 84
    3/30/2014 1:36:53 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ DEBUG ~ TransmitInsteon: [Upstairs] [1F] [6C] [A8] ((([00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [EC])))
    3/30/2014 1:36:55 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ INFO ~ SetCoolSetpoint: Upstairs Cool SetPoint = 85
    3/30/2014 1:36:55 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ DEBUG ~ TransmitInsteon: [Upstairs] [1F] [6C] [AA] ((([00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [EA])))
    3/30/2014 1:36:58 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ INFO ~ SetCoolSetpoint: Upstairs Cool SetPoint = 86
    3/30/2014 1:36:58 PM ~ Insteon Thermostat ~ DEBUG ~ TransmitInsteon: [Upstairs] [1F] [6C] [AC] ((([00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [E8])))




    Note that it goes 78,79,80,81,80,81,82,83,84,85,86
    It should not have stepped backwards at all, and I think that is why it appears to be missing one out of 10?


    Also, I can repeat this ten steps from the device screen, clicking on the "+" symbol 10 times, and get near similar results, where it will step down once, and then continue stepping up.

    Also, from the manual event, as well as the device screen, the thermostat will step up about 90% of the time. Meaning, I set the thermostat to 77 degrees, and then step it 10 times, most of the time, I end up with 86, not 87. You can see that in the above debug log.

    I will recreate my event to use the insteon trigger "up Button" I was using before, and give that a shot now that I have updated my insteon plugin.

    Leave a comment:


  • nfrobertson
    replied
    It's good you have the dual-band PLM as well as dual-band switches near your thermostats. Hopefully that does help to discount any general Insteon network concerns.

    The scripting API is working in this plug-in. Look in your HS3 directory under scripts and you'll find this example: InsteonThermostat_script_api.vb I put this together to test the script API calls as well as to serve as a sort of self-documentation until I have better plug-in docs written. Note that this will behave similarly to the device control as underneath both use the same code - it's just a different entry point to it.
    C:\Program Files (x86)\HomeSeer HS3\scripts\InsteonThermostat_script_api.vb

    Please do upgrade to Mark's latest plugin. I'm not sure there would be anything in there to help with this but it's generally a good idea to be on the latest.

    It is interesting that you had this working under HS2 with Tom's Sage Thermostat plug-in and Mark's Insteon plug-in for HS2 but are having issues under HS3.
    • What has changed is of course HS3 itself (vs HS2). However we do see the desired event being triggered and the actions fired. So, I assume this isn't somehow related to HS3. Not proof but I think a reasonable assumption.
    • Mark's plugin is released separately for HS3 vs HS2 but I would assume he's using the same code base for core Insteon support. I'm using his latest for HS3 and it's working well for my production server (i.e. my house) and for my development server.
    • Finally is my Insteon Thermostat plugin which is based heavily on Tom's Sage plugin for HS2. Tom and I did work out an arrangement and I can confirm that exactly the same Insteon commands that were being issued under HS2 are being issued under HS3. You can see evidence of that in the debug log you sent. In this case it is the [6C] command.

    Could you try a simple manual event that only does the Set Cool + and run that from a machine where you can watch the WDU and repeatedly trigger the event? Adjust the timing like I suggested in the last post. Try 20-30 seconds between trigger to help make sure the Insteon network communicated the command to the thermostat? Maybe try this same thing with both your upstairs and downstairs thermostats and see if you get any different behavior between them?

    One last thought. You say that everything in HS3 is updating ok but that the WDU doesn't update the cool setppoint. Have you confirmed that before you run your tests the WDU is actually in either Cool or Auto mode? It won't take Cool SetPoint changes in Off or Heat modes. I think you said previously that you had the self reporting Insteon links setup in the thermostat so it reports changes back to HS3. So I have to assume the mode etc. are all ok but it's worth triple checking.

    Leave a comment:


  • swanie2000
    replied
    Thanks for all your help so far.

    Yes, I have a dual band 2413s PLM.

    Also, when I bought these thermostats, I made a special purchase of 2 each dual band switches. I installed the upstairs thermostat, and a dual band switch on the opposite side of the wall of it. It is literally about 4 feet from the thermostat, separated by drywall. The downstairs thermostat and downstairs dual band switch are about 7 feet apart, facing each other in a clear line of sight. So although I admit it is possible, I think it is unlikely the RF portion is the problem.

    I had this simple thing(headboard temp adjustment) working, on HS2 with the other plugin. The thermostats and dual band switches have not changed a bit. However, back then, I used scripting commands to send the commands to the thermostat by way of a script.

    Are there scripting commands I could try? If so, could you post one sample script, and I could run with that example?

    I am running insteon plugin Ver 3.0.0.17. There is an update Ver 3.0.4.4 I will go ahead and update this just to be sure. I am pretty sure what I am missing is x10 support from the plugin, which I don't use in my home. Who knows, maybe there were some other improvements mark put in there?

    Michael

    Leave a comment:


  • nfrobertson
    replied
    I'm glad the update to 3.0.0.5 went smoothly - appreciate that feedback. It mirrors my own testing and upgrade on my production server here.

    Thanks to ebay and a very fast shipping seller there, I was able to obtain a new-in-box Venstar 2491T1E at a great price. The base Venstar is a T1700 internally with that little Smartlabs board wired inside it instead of the adapter underneath. The little white sticker says Rev 2.30 then under that 3111. On my plugin config page it's showing [050E,93,1] so I believe I have a model basically identical to what you're running.

    Before I read your post, I had set about running my regular set of tests to look for any issues. I've run it both in regular mode where it calls itself protocol=1. I've also run it in force protocol 2 mode. Both seem to behave well.

    Here's my test event, again the trigger is manual but it's the action we care about. I call my Venstar 2491T1E a "T1700" below:




    and here is a screen capture of the log as I ran the event many times only seconds apart:




    The only thing you can't tell from the event and log above is whether my T1700 actually updated. I can confirm that it did. I ran this test in quick succession to try and stress the plugin or Insteon or HS3 etc.

    From your logs I can see the events firing, I can see the plugin issuing the Insteon commands and you've confirmed the HS3 devices update. I think the main variable then is the Insteon network itself between your HS3 server and your thermostats? Thermostats are RF only devices. Do you have many (any?) dual-band devices or any of the older RF access points between your HS3 server and thermostats to help the Insteon network propagate the commands? Can I assume you're using a dual-band PLM instead of the older powerline only PLC to connect your HS3 server to the Insteon network? Can I am assume you have the latest Insteon plugin from Mark Sandler? Not sure why that would matter but good to check.

    Maybe you can try some much slower tests. Run the event and nothing else then wait to see if the thermostat ever does update? Perhaps there are retries going on in the Insteon network that need to complete? If you can get it (slowly) stepping up and the WDU, then maybe increase your speed a little bit and see where the minimum wait time really is for your Insteon network?

    If this was an IP network, now is when I'd want to get a protocol sniffer and see why things weren't working.

    Sorry I don't have a clear cut solution for you - just many what-ifs or tests to run at this point.


    Here's my tower of test thermostats, 2491T1E (aka T1700) at top, SH 2441TH middle and 2441ZTH bottom. I have a Venstar T1800 with 2441V upstairs actually running my furnace connected to my production HS3 with this plugin.

    Leave a comment:


  • swanie2000
    replied
    I updated my Insteon Thermostat plug in to ver 3.0.0.5

    I am still having the problem that I cannot adjust my thermostat set point +- 1 degree.

    Below screen shots show the event I am using, then the next screen shot shows the log, where I pushed the button, triggering the event 3 times.

    There is about 5 seconds between each time I triggered the event to step up 1 degree.

    Last screen shot shows the main page, where the cool set point did update correctly, but when I go to look at the WDU, it has not updated at all.

    I also included today's section of the thermostat debug log.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • nfrobertson
    replied
    Ok, I've determined the problem with the status page not displaying is that I was incorrectly requiring the humidity device. Humidity and External Temp Sensor are optional devices. Since humidity wasn't present, an error was thrown. I've improved some key sections of code that go after values to better protect from these generic errors and to handle humidity as an optional device on the web status page.

    Another *possible* issue is that your thermostat is reporting protocol 1. Looking at this link, it seems it maybe should be an i2cs device using protocol 2? I've added support on the config page to force it to use protocol 2 despite what the thermostat reports. I can't say if this will help or not but is worth a try to see if it can improve some of the Insteon communications. Worst case you just turn the force protocol 2 back off.

    Look for release 3.0.0.3 via the updater_override.txt method. I did speak with HST today and they're working on my store/updater submission.

    I just found a Venstar with integrated Insteon 2491T1E (new in box) for a good price on ebay so scooped that up. It'll take a week or two to get here and then I'll do my own testing with it. Hopefully it has firmware similar to yours.

    Leave a comment:


  • swanie2000
    replied
    OK, Here is the new debug file.
    I restarted HS3, and then I pushed my master bedroom head board controller button 8(temp up) 5-6 times, waiting for the home screen to update the new setpoint before I pressed the button again.

    Also, I have had trouble in the past with the "Night time" setting. Yo have to use "changes and becomes" before the test for night time. I don't know why, but this is what works for me. See picture.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:

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