Need help with trigger....

[sbessel]

I am looking to use Easy Trigger groups to setback my thermostats.

This sort of works, but has a lot of issues.

I need to setback the thermostats when any window is open (22) and then set them to their current program when ALL windows are closed (23).

My issue is I want a delay on the trigger. Many times closing the windows they don't seat all the way and you need to immediately open then close to properly seat the window, this was causing multiple triggers and my Ecobees to go nuts.
I also have a sliding glass door that I don't want to trigger unless it has been open for a couple of minutes, the same rules should apply to the windows, hence the group.
I do not want to re-trigger the event every time a window is opened if one is already open.


Any ideas or help would be greatly appreciated. I have been working this for a few days now and I am just too close and am not seeing an answer.
I had it working closer on a pervious iteration, but I ran into issues on my sliding door setting back and not releasing, this got me to this version.
This is what I have now: (and it is not working correctly)

[Uncle Michael]

Your events have triggers that will run when a device changes, but a condition that requires them to have not changed. They cancel each other.

I think for this situation it would be useful to define a virtual device that captures Window status. It could have two values, "All closed" and "Not all closed"
Change the virtual device state in two events with recurring triggers, then use the virtual device to trigger the thermostat programs.

If This event will trigger every 30s
And If All Devices in group have value 23
And If All devices in group have not changed for 30s
And If Vdevice is Not all Closed
Then set Vdevice to All Closed

If This event will trigger every 30s
And If Any device in group has been in range 22,22 for at least 45 sec
And If Vdevice is All Closed
Then set Vdevcie to Not all closed

If Vdevice Changes and become All Closed
Then set current program to Resume

If Vdevice changes and become Not all closed
Then set current program to Windows open

Note: The events to change the Ecobee program may require additional conditions, depending on what other criteria you use to determine them.

[sbessel]

I appreciate the feedback but that does not solve my needs. I also try and avoid unnecessary virtual devices.

I had it close to working, but the sliding door kept throwing it all off as it was an open/close situation within minutes.

I have also tried very hard to avoid events that trigger every xx seconds just to watch things, I do my best to trigger on device changes. My issue is I need the delayed trigger and HS is not very strong in that department.

thanks,

Scott

[Wade]

Have you tried setting the event to prevent retrigger within a certain period of time?

[sbessel]

Have you tried setting the event to prevent retrigger within a certain period of time?

yup...

I would miss events. I ran into cases where I would open/close the sliding door and then close a window and it would miss the window event.

Scott

[Uncle Michael]

I appreciate the feedback but that does not solve my needs. I also try and avoid unnecessary virtual devices.
I have also tried very hard to avoid events that trigger every xx seconds just to watch things, I do my best to trigger on device changes. My issue is I need the delayed trigger and HS is not very strong in that department.

Are you saying that what I proposed will not work? If so, please explain the remaining problem.

If what you mean is that you have an esthetic aversion to virtual devices (think of them as the equivalent of a variable in a traditional computer language) and / or recurring events with conditions, you are adding unnecessary constraints that make the task more difficult at best, and may make it impossible.

Although they may appear to be inefficient at an intuitive level, neither of them cause difficulty for HS, nor in my experience do they negatively impact its performance or efficiency.

If you are looking for a way to create a delayed trigger, you can do that by using one event to run another event after a delay. Put the key conditions in the delayed event and select run only if other event conditions are true in the advanced options.

[sbessel]

Are you saying that what I proposed will not work? If so, please explain the remaining problem.

If what you mean is that you have an esthetic aversion to virtual devices (think of them as the equivalent of a variable in a traditional computer language) and / or recurring events with conditions, you are adding unnecessary constraints that make the task more difficult at best, and may make it impossible.

Although they may appear to be inefficient at an intuitive level, neither of them cause difficulty for HS, nor in my experience do they negatively impact its performance or efficiency.

If you are looking for a way to create a delayed trigger, you can do that by using one event to run another event after a delay. Put the key conditions in the delayed event and select run only if other event conditions are true in the advanced options.

I posted in this EasyTrigger section as I believe there is an EasyTrigger style solution and that I am quite close.

While what you suggested may work for you it does not work for me. I am not willing to abandon all hope and start over on a completely different path, one that I am adamantly against.

I am trying to keep my system as simple as possible and I don't see that happening by doubling up on events running every few seconds supported by a second set of virtual devices.

I was really hoping spud would pop his head in here as he really knows and understands his EasyTrigger better than us all.

I am convinced it is really the matter of being able to delay my initial triggers, but then again it is still giving me issues so I could be incorrectly assuming the operation of EasyTrigger and how works with events.

Scott

[spud]

As Uncle Michael told you:
- the events in your screenshots won't run because the condition (AND IF) will always be false when the trigger (IF) is fired.
- if you want to delay an event, use the "Run another event" action with a delay

[randy]

I appreciate the feedback but that does not solve my needs. I also try and avoid unnecessary virtual devices.

Why? Virtual devices are excellent solutions for any number of situations.

I had it close to working, but the sliding door kept throwing it all off as it was an open/close situation within minutes.

I have also tried very hard to avoid events that trigger every xx seconds just to watch things

Why? An event Trigger that is true, with Conditions that are false, carries virtually no system overhead impact.

I do my best to trigger on device changes. My issue is I need the delayed trigger and HS is not very strong in that department.

thanks,

Scott

[sbessel]

OK - thanks for the suggestions.

I believe I have this figured out. I only have a small bit of testing and I will need a week or so to be sure, but so far this configuration is working.
There are some edge cases when multiple windows are opened/closed within seconds of each other I need to test.

But so far;
It only sets back on the first window opening, ignoring subsequent openings.
It will only resume the HVAC program on the last window closed.
The 45 sec delay keeps my sliding door out of the picture unless I chose to leave it open and I can adjust this delay if needed.


The my first post was incorrect and I knew that, I had it closer but in an attempt to fix I got further away. One of my pet peeves with HS is there is no undo or cancel and if you just select an option to see what is available you are stuck picking something, and with short term memory issues I usually pick wrong


On a side note I do have virtual devices for a lot of things, mainly my Homebridge integration. My philosophy in regards to events and virtual events has served me well and I will continue to use it. For me it is much easier to follow and support.

thanks,

Scott

[randy]

OK - thanks for the suggestions.

I believe I have this figured out. I only have a small bit of testing and I will need a week or so to be sure, but so far this configuration is working.
There are some edge cases when multiple windows are opened/closed within seconds of each other I need to test.

But so far;
It only sets back on the first window opening, ignoring subsequent openings.
It will only resume the HVAC program on the last window closed.
The 45 sec delay keeps my sliding door out of the picture unless I chose to leave it open and I can adjust this delay if needed.


The my first post was incorrect and I knew that, I had it closer but in an attempt to fix I got further away. One of my pet peeves with HS is there is no undo or cancel and if you just select an option to see what is available you are stuck picking something, and with short term memory issues I usually pick wrong


On a side note I do have virtual devices for a lot of things, mainly my Homebridge integration. My philosophy in regards to events and virtual events has served me well and I will continue to use it. For me it is much easier to follow and support.

thanks,

Scott

Your second Event cannot run.

[Uncle Michael]

I believe I have this figured out. I only have a small bit of testing and I will need a week or so to be sure . . .
But so far;
It only sets back on the first window opening, ignoring subsequent openings.
It will only resume the HVAC program on the last window closed.

Glad to see you got it working the way you want.

On a side note I do have virtual devices for a lot of things, mainly my Homebridge integration. My philosophy in regards to events and virtual events has served me well and I will continue to use it. For me it is much easier to follow and support.

If these constraints work for you, that's all that counts.

I am curious about your windows open event. I would not expect that trigger / condition combination to work and I'd really like to understand why it does.
If a group device has been in the range 22,22 for 45 seconds, how can all devices in the group have a value that is not equal to 22?

[randy]

I use a script for monitoring all doors and windows and several virtual devices to indicate the state.



These Virtual Devices are used in a number of events from house to sleep sequences as outlined here, to controlling heating, air conditioning and attic fan.

The script is here.

You could use the House Windows Virtual device in your thermostat control Events.

[sbessel]

Sorry - I posted the wrong snapshot - I was keeping a bunch so I could revert back and I posted one that was broke.
I had to detect the 'Windows Open" program on my Ecobee's and use that to not trigger again. The only time this is used is by these events. I couldn't just use EasyTrigger.

This is what I am currently running, and it 'seems' to work. But again I need time with it.

I suppose if I separated doors and windows it may be easier, but I want to be able to leave open my sliders and setback my thermostats the same as the windows, I just want to ignore the in/out of using the sliders, hence the 45 second delay.
I really thought this could be done easier. I have other scripts and some I really need to finish so I didn't want to go that route.
My OCD won't allow me to just keep setting my Ecobee's that are already set, if I could this would be much easier.

[sbessel]

For anyone interested this is what finally worked for me.

It's not as clean as I had hoped, but it works.