How to create a trigger with a group of two motion detectors

[mwoo68]

I am very new to homeseer and coming from Hubitat. My decision to try homeseer is the fact I have a PC always on running Blue Iris camera software, so I thought why not have the system perform some home automation... and thinking homeseer shouldn't be too bad to learn. Yikes.. The programming of events is so different, I'm struggling to get even the simplest events completed. Homeseer feels lacking in programming logic and efficiency for a package that was released in 2020 (HS4). Or its just me! LOL. I am determined to get it working though!

I am struggling with what I thought was a simple 2 motion sensors to control 1 light. Oh, and I also immediately purchased the easytrigger plugin due to all the rave reviews.

To turn on lights with motion, I think I got correctly using Easy trigger event with the motion sensors in a group. I had a trigger "If Any Devices in group changes and becomes 255"

My issue is with an event to turn the lights off.

Turn lights off with no motion
Easytrigger only allows trigger with "If ANY DEVICE in group with no activity for xxx minutes". But I want "ALL Devices in group" How come it won't allow this. The only time I can get the "ALL" option if the easytrigger follows as a "And if ALL Device in group".

When attempting to turn lights off, I would assume we would want ALL devices in group to be off (inactive)

Any advice?

[mik3]

I too come from Hubitat. Once you get a hang of the event engine it becomes easier. It doesn’t have the else if logic, but what it does have from what I’ve seen is reliability!

you have to make two events, one as you described to turn the lights on, and another one to turn it off.

If

Any device in group Group Name has not changed for exactly x mins

and

all devices in group name are 0

then

turn off lights

[mwoo68]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!! This put me on the right path. The event works!!! I agree with your comments. Its clunky and slow to program, but I do get the sense its a bit peppier in the actuations. I'm keeping my hubitat for zigbee (Xiaomi) and the few TPlink wifi plugs I have. I just need to now figure out how to use the Xiaomi buttons in the HS events and get the time to play some more! Thanks again for putting right.

[Ltek]

I am very new to homeseer and coming from Hubitat. My decision to try homeseer is the fact I have a PC always on running Blue Iris camera software, so I thought why not have the system perform some home automation... and thinking homeseer shouldn't be too bad to learn. Yikes.. The programming of events is so different, I'm struggling to get even the simplest events completed. Homeseer feels lacking in programming logic and efficiency for a package that was released in 2020 (HS4). Or its just me! LOL. I am determined to get it working though!

I am struggling with what I thought was a simple 2 motion sensors to control 1 light. Oh, and I also immediately purchased the easytrigger plugin due to all the rave reviews.

To turn on lights with motion, I think I got correctly using Easy trigger event with the motion sensors in a group. I had a trigger "If Any Devices in group changes and becomes 255"

My issue is with an event to turn the lights off.

Turn lights off with no motion
Easytrigger only allows trigger with "If ANY DEVICE in group with no activity for xxx minutes". But I want "ALL Devices in group" How come it won't allow this. The only time I can get the "ALL" option if the easytrigger follows as a "And if ALL Device in group".

When attempting to turn lights off, I would assume we would want ALL devices in group to be off (inactive)

Any advice?

Yes, last of If/Then/Else makes the event engine require a lot more work and more events to make basic stuff happen. Unfortunately I dont see that changing since the dev team doesnt get it, or doesnt care. I have over 300 events, if we had ITE logic I'd have half that many, or less.

For Easy Trigger... I suggest posting a feature request for Spud. He's really good at adding features or explaining how to do them easily within ET.

[ewkearns]

I feel this is a major flaw (and apparently, from what I read, so do others). I would MUCH rather have had ITE than a new version of HS. Yet, HS has steadfastly refused to add this feature. It seems the prevailing logic is that you don't NEED it, because you can accomplish the same ends without it. To me, it is a question of whether one wants to move the mountain with a teaspoon or a bulldozer. My 2¢.

[mik3]

I feel this is a major flaw (and apparently, from what I read, so do others). I would MUCH rather have had ITE than a new version of HS. Yet, HS has steadfastly refused to add this feature. It seems the prevailing logic is that you don't NEED it, because you can accomplish the same ends without it. To me, it is a question of whether one wants to move the mountain with a teaspoon or a bulldozer. My 2¢.

If I recall from previous reading, the HS team didn't want to implement this logic because it created more room for end user errors. Which I can say I've seen first hand on other platforms.

There is some logic advancements that are supposed to happen in the coming months. Check the HS4 check list for 2020.

[Ltek]

If I recall from previous reading, the HS team didn't want to implement this logic because it created more room for end user errors. Which I can say I've seen first hand on other platforms. There is some logic advancements that are supposed to happen in the coming months. Check the HS4 check list for 2020.

If you have some direct info on these 'logic advancements' that would be great but what I've seen on the web site (link attached) there isnt much of anything, and is not ITE

ewkearns

yeah, they did not use the most popular logic method in the world for 50 years (some could argue since the dawn of humanity since ITE is actually how our brain works) "because users would have problems" or you dont't need it.... RIGHT ;-)
Reality is, 20 yrs ago when HS was launched, it was FAR easier for the developer (Rich) to code for processing simple single stream logic and is far easier to create a GUI for it. Either his lack of experience required it or he just didnt think HS would grow. HS3/4 still has gaps that have been there since v1.5 (over 15 yrs ago) when I started using it. If you are doing complex DIY Automation, unfortunately, the only games in town are Home Assistant and Homeseer. I chose HS because I didnt want to tinker. In reality, HA would not have been more work and was a better long term strategy but its too late... I'm too deep in HS.
HTS isnt going anywhere... I paid my $50 for the HS4 update to keep it on life support until Hubitat or Home Assistant eclipse it in 2 to 3 years.

[racerfern]

I grew up with IFE from the first programming languages. Somehow I don't miss it in HS. It seems to me that it's too easy to get lost with ELSE statements when you have more than one event controlling devices. I've learned to simply write another event (even copy the existing event and use the opposite triggers/conditions) to accomplish the other side of the equation. It seems that this way, one event tends not to interfere with another event.

EX: I have outside lights that come on automatically at sunset, however they're also controlled during night hours by a zigbee motion sensor by the front porch. On top of that if I open the door after sunset to walk the dog there's a separate control for the outside lights. Finally, depending on the sequence of triggers/conditions HS might announce that someone walked up to the front door, etc, etc, etc. I can't even imagine using ITE, because there are so many variables. Separate events makes it easy to manage for me. Through all that I love ITE, I just don't think there's enough call for it when it's so easy to make another event.

My 2 cents.

[mik3]

If you have some direct info on these 'logic advancements' that would be great but what I've seen on the web site (link attached) there isnt much of anything, and is not ITE

ewkearns

yeah, they did not use the most popular logic method in the world for 50 years (some could argue since the dawn of humanity since ITE is actually how our brain works) "because users would have problems" or you dont't need it.... RIGHT ;-)
Reality is, 20 yrs ago when HS was launched, it was FAR easier for the developer (Rich) to code for processing simple single stream logic and is far easier to create a GUI for it. Either his lack of experience required it or he just didnt think HS would grow. HS3/4 still has gaps that have been there since v1.5 (over 15 yrs ago) when I started using it. If you are doing complex DIY Automation, unfortunately, the only games in town are Home Assistant and Homeseer. I chose HS because I didnt want to tinker. In reality, HA would not have been more work and was a better long term strategy but its too late... I'm too deep in HS.
HTS isnt going anywhere... I paid my $50 for the HS4 update to keep it on life support until Hubitat or Home Assistant eclipse it in 2 to 3 years.

If Hubitat beats out HS, they better get the bugs figured out. There is a ton of performance bugs.

[Ltek]

If Hubitat beats out HS, they better get the bugs figured out. There is a ton of performance bugs.

I hope you understand Hubitat has been out for 1 year vs Homeseer for 20 years. Trust me when I tell you Hubitat at 1 year old, including integrated hardware CRUSHES & OBLITERATES Homeseer when it was 5 years old, maybe even 10 years old... and HS doesnt have to worry about the custom hardware variable.

[mwoo68]

I grew up with IFE from the first programming languages. Somehow I don't miss it in HS. It seems to me that it's too easy to get lost with ELSE statements when you have more than one event controlling devices. I've learned to simply write another event (even copy the existing event and use the opposite triggers/conditions) to accomplish the other side of the equation. It seems that this way, one event tends not to interfere with another event.

EX: I have outside lights that come on automatically at sunset, however they're also controlled during night hours by a zigbee motion sensor by the front porch. On top of that if I open the door after sunset to walk the dog there's a separate control for the outside lights. Finally, depending on the sequence of triggers/conditions HS might announce that someone walked up to the front door, etc, etc, etc. I can't even imagine using ITE, because there are so many variables. Separate events makes it easy to manage for me. Through all that I love ITE, I just don't think there's enough call for it when it's so easy to make another event.

My 2 cents.

I recall my first programming language I learned was Fortran back in the 80's, so using IFE is logical for me, AND, with issues that did crop up in the automatons using hubitat/smarthings, I was able to resolve them quickly. While I am still so green in HS, I still find it needs enormous amounts of clicking through menus and reading the lines of what does what... I am sure it'll get easier as some have said, but with the limited time with it, the automations I have made does give me the feeling of reliability. Hard to know for sure in the long run, but the reactions are quick and expected so far. I just hope after I finish up converting all my automations to HS that it doesn't slow up. In hubitat, I had general reliability, but had delays and sometimes weird reactions to automations. I am keeping my hubitat working alongside HS for controlling some TP link devices and zigbee devices.

If I can get reliability out of HS, that'll easily trump the event creation and event programming in my books.

[Ltek]

I grew up with IFE from the first programming languages. Somehow I don't miss it in HS. It seems to me that it's too easy to get lost with ELSE statements when you have more than one event controlling devices. I've learned to simply write another event (even copy the existing event and use the opposite triggers/conditions) to accomplish the other side of the equation. It seems that this way, one event tends not to interfere with another event.

EX: I have outside lights that come on automatically at sunset, however they're also controlled during night hours by a zigbee motion sensor by the front porch. On top of that if I open the door after sunset to walk the dog there's a separate control for the outside lights. Finally, depending on the sequence of triggers/conditions HS might announce that someone walked up to the front door, etc, etc, etc. I can't even imagine using ITE, because there are so many variables. Separate events makes it easy to manage for me. Through all that I love ITE, I just don't think there's enough call for it when it's so easy to make another event.

My 2 cents.

If you have simple events, like you describe, then sure... but some of us have complex events and are FAR harder to manage... I have over 300 events. I'm not even a good coder (I'm not really a coder) and ITE would make things 100x easier in so many ways... I had ITE in Vera (using a plugin) and doing what I do in Homeseer in 20 events to control House Modes I did in 4 using ITE. It was much, much, much easier to code and track... and nothing stepped on each others with race conditions like it can with Homeseer.

[mik3]

This will likely not deliver what you guys are after, but they do plan to do work with the event engine this year. See below.

I have around 250 events. The reliability I'm getting so far from HS is enough for me not to care about alternatives.

If one really wants to get around this, why not script everything?

Coming Soon

Conditional Actions Conditions can be applied to specific event actions instead of entire events.

[mik3]

If you have some direct info on these 'logic advancements' that would be great but what I've seen on the web site (link attached) there isnt much of anything, and is not ITE

ewkearns

yeah, they did not use the most popular logic method in the world for 50 years (some could argue since the dawn of humanity since ITE is actually how our brain works) "because users would have problems" or you dont't need it.... RIGHT ;-)
Reality is, 20 yrs ago when HS was launched, it was FAR easier for the developer (Rich) to code for processing simple single stream logic and is far easier to create a GUI for it. Either his lack of experience required it or he just didnt think HS would grow. HS3/4 still has gaps that have been there since v1.5 (over 15 yrs ago) when I started using it. If you are doing complex DIY Automation, unfortunately, the only games in town are Home Assistant and Homeseer. I chose HS because I didnt want to tinker. In reality, HA would not have been more work and was a better long term strategy but its too late... I'm too deep in HS.
HTS isnt going anywhere... I paid my $50 for the HS4 update to keep it on life support until Hubitat or Home Assistant eclipse it in 2 to 3 years.

To comment on this one again, Hubitat just introduced a premium feature that requires a monthly fee. What I gather from it, the most beneficial feature is backing up all your radio data and restoring to another Hubitat. I'm not sure if I fully understand, but from the sounds of it these features are cloud base features.....

Just a thought, when people complain about the cost of HS and plugins. Hubitat will likely continue down this path to create revenue for their business. Otherwise, they won't stay a float.

[Ltek]

This will likely not deliver what you guys are after, but they do plan to do work with the event engine this year. See below.

I have around 250 events. The reliability I'm getting so far from HS is enough for me not to care about alternatives.

If one really wants to get around this, why not script everything?

Coming Soon

Conditional Actions Conditions can be applied to specific event actions instead of entire events.

HS3 is reliable, no debate there.

The point of having HA hub software is so we dont need to script everything. Back in HS 1.x MANY plugins were scripts and we wrote and shared hundreds of them within the community for free. If I wanted to hand-code most things I'd have selected Home Assistant a few years ago when I moved back to HS from Vera.

Conditional Actions : potentially helpful to band-aid the lack of ITE. This is HST's "Easy way Out" so they can try to avoid changing their processing. I do hope its done properly as HS many good feature ideas are implemented incorrectly or poorly... difficult to use (Timers, etc) and/or half-way (Event Conditions, etc), or simply just dont work right.

To comment on this one again, Hubitat just introduced a premium feature that requires a monthly fee. What I gather from it, the most beneficial feature is backing up all your radio data and restoring to another Hubitat. I'm not sure if I fully understand, but from the sounds of it these features are cloud base features.....

Just a thought, when people complain about the cost of HS and plugins. Hubitat will likely continue down this path to create revenue for their business. Otherwise, they won't stay a float.

HST has been surviving off of plugin fees and hardware sales instead of subs. I dont see many people complaining about HS's price. For the power-user DIYer the price is not a barrier.
While I think some of the plugins are overpriced, others are great like Easy Trigger (which adds to Homeseer what SHOULD BE built in anyway)

I suspect Hubitat will improve quickly. It has the potential to be the on top of the DIY platforms with Home Assistant. They might even get acquired by a larger entity. The future of Samsungs SmartThings is uncertain as no one really knows what changes they are making... so Hubitat may have a chance to take some/much of that customer base.

I've said many times, Homeseer could have owned this space years ago. Technology wasn't the barrier, their own business practices/marketing/etc keeps Homeseer from owning the space. Its too late for Homeseer, they missed the opportunity.