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    Radient heating thermostat controls

    hi, Ive seen this question asked before but no real solution.

    i am building a house that has 6 hydronic radiant heating zones and forced hot air as supplement heating.
    im using one manifold with actuators on every loop.
    i also will be purchasing zone controllers that have outputs for thermostats controlling that particular zone.

    These are the issue i am running into:

    1. Since everyone zone needs a thermostat, this means i need to buy 6 thermostats.

    2.I would like to have at least one thermostat that can turn on the forced hot air/AC when needed. (i think i need a dual stage thermostat)

    3. how to have these thermostats controlled in homeseer. From what i read, radiant floor heating requires special thermostats and i only found them too be hardwired.

    What i am thinking,if possible, is to hardwire all my thermostats to my zone controller and wire the zone control to home-seer. is it possible to run this dual setup. i am looking into taco zone controllers.

    if anyone has any experience on this please let me know.

    thanks

    #2
    I have a situation very similar to yours. I use an RCS communicating thermostat (2, actually, because I have two forced air zones) to control my forced air system. I have 10 heat only, non-communicating thermostats for each of my hydronic zones.

    For HS control of the hydronic zones there are two answers.

    The first, and easiest answer is, don't do it. There is virtually nothing to be gained by adjusting the set point of a hydronic zone, its response time is too slow to respond to the changes unless they are for many days or weeks duration.

    That said, the second answer is that you can wire a simple relay into the white wire of each zone you want to control (call for heat) and have HS turn the relay on or off.
    Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
    HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

    HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

    Comment


      #3
      Very helpful insight.
      thanks very much.

      one more question.
      which brand of thermostat did you use?
      also, did you ever try to put the thermostats in one location and have floor sensors to each zone?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by kjp View Post
        which brand of thermostat did you use?
        I use Honeywell 5000 thermostats for the hydronic zones. They sense air temperature only. I've never considered floor temperature sensors or remotely locating the thermostats. What do you want to achieve by centralizing the thermostats?
        Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
        HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

        HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

        Comment


          #5
          Hi,
          having the thermostats in one location was for visual appearence of not having thmerostats on the wall in every room and prevent tampering with or change of settings.

          Comment


            #6
            Centralized t-stats with remote sensors seems a bit over the top! You,re duplicating the temperature sensing and the cost of a t-stat with remote sensing will be more than a conventional t-stat. Plus you won't have the ability to check the temperature while you are in the zone room unless you install yet another temperature sensing device with a display.

            Steve Q
            HomeSeer Version: HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.368, Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 - Home, Number of Devices: 373, Number of Events: 666, Enabled Plug-Ins
            2.0.83.0: BLRF, 2.0.10.0: BLUSBUIRT, 3.0.0.75: HSTouch Server, 3.0.0.58: mcsXap, 3.0.0.11: NetCAM, 3.0.0.36: X10, 3.0.1.25: Z-Wave,Alexa,HomeKit

            Comment


              #7
              I have a similar arrangment in progress. Currently I have an omnistat2 for the main thermostat. It controls 1 zone and my furnace. The house has a number of other zones.

              There are few reasons that I want to put communicating thermostats in each room:

              1) I'd like to be able to monitor the temperature in each room - I could do this with temperature sensors as well.
              2) I find that some of the rooms have a tendency to overshoot in the morning when it is bright and sunny outside. This tends to happen when it is cold outside (say -35C) and the zone is heating at night. Then we get a warm morning (say -20C) and it is bright and sunny (large windows in many rooms) the rooms can get really warm even though the heat is off. HS could back the setpoint down a few degrees based on the forcast for the morning. You can get external temperature sensors and do a setback but in my testing the thermostat needs to go off before the outdoor temperature goes up.
              3) I could setback the thermostats when we the system mode is set to vacation or for unused areas such as the guest suite.
              4) I just want to control things. Thats the real reason I do HA

              I don't have a good suggestion for a thermostat but I do see some possible uses for them. I'm interested to see what others have to say.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by acromion View Post
                3) I could setback the thermostats when we the system mode is set to vacation or for unused areas such as the guest suite.
                I actually do just that. That's where I make use of a relay in the call for heat line. HS can turn the heat on and off with the thermostat setting as the maximum, so the setup is fail safe (in the high temp direction). If you also install a temp sensor in the room you could have HS act as a virtual thermostat while saving the cost of a communicating thermostat.
                Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Uncle Michael View Post
                  I have a situation very similar to yours. I use an RCS communicating thermostat (2, actually, because I have two forced air zones) to control my forced air system. I have 10 heat only, non-communicating thermostats for each of my hydronic zones.

                  For HS control of the hydronic zones there are two answers.

                  The first, and easiest answer is, don't do it. There is virtually nothing to be gained by adjusting the set point of a hydronic zone, its response time is too slow to respond to the changes unless they are for many days or weeks duration.

                  That said, the second answer is that you can wire a simple relay into the white wire of each zone you want to control (call for heat) and have HS turn the relay on or off.
                  Can someone expound on this a bit? How do I "wire a relay"? I don't follow.

                  ETA: I guess I should clarify my question.
                  The diagram below represents the extent of my understanding.

                  What I don't understand is which wires run through the relay, and how does it pass the signal to the HS controller?
                  Also, what specs should I look for in the relay itself (voltage etc.)?
                  Last edited by fluwoebers; March 18, 2016, 09:54 AM.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by fluwoebers View Post
                    What I don't understand is which wires run through the relay, and how does it pass the signal to the HS controller?
                    Also, what specs should I look for in the relay itself (voltage etc.)?
                    The relay I use acts to interrupt the control wire to the thermostat. In the US, that is typically a 24V control, so the relay would need to be able to handle that voltage. HS controls the relay, so it is wired to the relay coil.

                    I'm not sure what you mean by passing the signal to the HS controller. I use HS to override the thermostat based on information the thermostat does not have, such as whether we are at home or not.
                    Attached Files
                    Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                    HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                    HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Uncle Michael View Post
                      The relay I use acts to interrupt the control wire to the thermostat. In the US, that is typically a 24V control, so the relay would need to be able to handle that voltage. HS controls the relay, so it is wired to the relay coil.

                      I'm not sure what you mean by passing the signal to the HS controller. I use HS to override the thermostat based on information the thermostat does not have, such as whether we are at home or not.
                      Thanks. What I mean by "pass the signal to HS" is How does HS know what the temp is? Doesn't that need to come from the thermostat?
                      Or are you saying that HS doesn't control based on temperature, but on other criteria such as whether we are home?

                      I'm also not clear about how to physically wire between HS and the relay. I have 9 zones. Are there 9 sets of wires coming out of the HS box running to the relays? Is there somewhere on the HS control box to attach the wires?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by fluwoebers View Post
                        Thanks. What I mean by "pass the signal to HS" is How does HS know what the temp is? Doesn't that need to come from the thermostat? Or are you saying that HS doesn't control based on temperature, but on other criteria such as whether we are home?
                        I was assuming the existing thermostat would continue to control based on temperature. HS control would be for other reasons, such as extended absence. I do have a case where I use the original thermostat as a 'fail safe' limit, but use an independent temperature feed to allow HS to control the temperature and provide a way to use HSTouch to adjust the set point. Sort of like a virtual communicating thermostat. In that case, the temperature data comes from an independent source (an Oregon Scientific sensor).
                        I'm also not clear about how to physically wire between HS and the relay. I have 9 zones. Are there 9 sets of wires coming out of the HS box running to the relays? Is there somewhere on the HS control box to attach the wires?
                        You would need a relay that is designed to work with HS, and probably a corresponding plug-in. Typically, the relay controller would connect to HS with a serial, USB, or LAN connection. One option is an Arduino with an attached relay board and the Arduino plug-in.

                        In my system I have both an old Stargate that offers relay control connected by serial link to HS, and a RelayBee that is connected to HS by USB.
                        Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                        HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                        HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Uncle Michael View Post
                          I was assuming the existing thermostat would continue to control based on temperature. HS control would be for other reasons, such as extended absence. I do have a case where I use the original thermostat as a 'fail safe' limit, but use an independent temperature feed to allow HS to control the temperature and provide a way to use HSTouch to adjust the set point. Sort of like a virtual communicating thermostat. In that case, the temperature data comes from an independent source (an Oregon Scientific sensor).
                          You would need a relay that is designed to work with HS, and probably a corresponding plug-in. Typically, the relay controller would connect to HS with a serial, USB, or LAN connection. One option is an Arduino with an attached relay board and the Arduino plug-in.

                          In my system I have both an old Stargate that offers relay control connected by serial link to HS, and a RelayBee that is connected to HS by USB.
                          Thanks for your patience in answering my noob questions. This clarifies a lot.
                          Now I need to figure out how to control all 9 zones on a single relay...

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by fluwoebers View Post
                            Now I need to figure out how to control all 9 zones on a single relay...
                            I'm pretty sure you'll need one relay per zone.
                            Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                            HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                            HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

                            Comment

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