ZWave Switch Setup Issues

[TXDego]

So I purchased a HS3 ZEE S2 on the recommendation from HomeSeer, and purchased 9 switches (Linear ZWave). Installed 3 of these switches, then proceeded to do the setup.

Set up of the HomeTroller went fairly smooth, had some bumps, but was able to get through it. Then came to adding switches into the HomeTroller software. It took a minimum of 20 tries, maybe 30 tries to get the first switch to Add/Include Node. The 2nd & 3rd switch never would get recognized by the system. After a solid 2 hours of fooling around with this, I gave up.

My conclusion is this HomeTroller unit either has a bad ZWave interface/receiver/signal thingy or it can only broadcast about 15 feet reliably. The first switch that worked, but took 20 to 30 tires is about 20 feet from unit. The other 2 switches are about 30 ft from unit. The HomeSeer rep on the phone said the ZWave deal built into the HomeTroller was capable of about 130 feet, but they usually advise people to plan for around 100 feet.

At this point, just not sure what to do, thinking that I probably need to box up this HomeTroller and return it and try a different manufacture. Wanted to get input here before I started taking everything apart. Please advise.

[Rupp]

Do your switches support Network Wide Inclusion (NWI) ? It's always a good idea to add your Z-Wave devices within a few inches of your Z-Wave interface for the best results.

[TXDego]

Rupp, thanks for following up

Since you have 37,387 posts on this forum, I am shocked that you would ask "Do your switches support Network Wide Inclusion (NWI) ?" I stated in my question that I am using Linear(GoControl) switches, which all are NWI switches.

I was not aware that one could program a switch next to the controller then take it somewhere in the house and install it. Since I don't know anything about this stuff, can I assume that once a switch is programmed, it no longer needs to be range of the controller? My assumption was that there was always some level of communication that took place between the switch and the controller? Especially when the switch programming needs to be changed or adjusted? Please clarify on this, as your suggestion would save me a lot of heart burn.

Thanks,

[ewkearns]

If this is what he has, it should work (I think).

Is there any error message in the log?

[TXDego]

Yes, ewk that is one of the switches. I did not take a screen shot, but there are no errors, just says searching or waiting......... then it finally times out.

[sparkman]

Yes, ewk that is one of the switches. I did not take a screen shot, but there are no errors, just says searching or waiting......... then it finally times out.

Have you tried excluding the switch first? Sometimes during factory testing, the network information is not removed, so you may need to exclude it first before trying to add.

Cheers
Al

[ewkearns]

I would talk to Homeseer for recommendations. My ZEE (version 1) makes it through 5 walls and about 115 feet of distance, so if it is working properly, 20 feet is nothing. I do have older nodes that have to be placed next to the ZEE, but as I understand it, with NWI that shouldn't be necessary.

You could try putting the ZEE next to the 3 installed nodes (I have a 150' CAT-5 cable to reach my workshop) to get them working. Then check to see if the furthest node routes back to the #1 node (the ZEE). If it doesn't you may have a faulty unit.....

[TXDego]

EWK, I do have plenty of cat5 so I will try that first, thanks for the suggestion

[TXDego]

Spark, I don't really understand what you are describing, atm only have 1 switch part of the network and that one took a lot of tries. Which leaves me to think the unit just is not seeing the switches.

[sparkman]

Spark, I don't really understand what you are describing, atm only have 1 switch part of the network and that one took a lot of tries. Which leaves me to think the unit just is not seeing the switches.

Likely, but a common issue is that z-wave devices are left configured with a network ID when they leave the factory which means that they won't add at all until they are excluded which removes any network ID. So the 2nd and 3rd switches could be in that state. To try, go to the z-wave controller management page under z-wave interfaces and pick Remove/Exclude a Node and put the switch into inclusion/exclusion mode.

Cheers
Al

[TXDego]

Oh wow Spark, had no idea that was even possible. This stuff is already temperamental enough, can't believe the factories are sticking it to us as well. Will give that a try as well. Thanks

[TXDego]

Also, while I have you Jedi Masters attention, my next order of business, assuming these switches will cooperate, is to program all these switches to come on at same time. What is the best way to achieve this?

Basically I am trying to get all my outside lights to turn on at same time with one switch being the master switch. None of the switches are 3 way, they are all single pole individuals. Think it will be a total of 6 switches.

[sparkman]

Also, while I have you Jedi Masters attention, my next order of business, assuming these switches will cooperate, is to program all these switches to come on at same time. What is the best way to achieve this?

Basically I am trying to get all my outside lights to turn on at same time with one switch being the master switch. None of the switches are 3 way, they are all single pole individuals. Think it will be a total of 6 switches.

HomeSeer can turn on the 5 other switches through a simple event when it detects that the master switch is turned on. However, I don't think these switches support instant status so you would have to poll the master quite often if you want the others to turn on soon after. Instant status capable switches will send info to the controller when they are operated locally which can trigger events, and you won't need to poll them. Not all switches support instant status due to the licensing costs they had to pay the patent holder. The HomeSeer branded switches support instant status, along with Cooper and Leviton's Vizia RF+ line.

If the switches support the scene class, then you could use HomeSeer to program the master switch with a scene that controls the other switches. The disadvantage to scenes is that the switches communicate directly with each other, so HomeSeer is not aware of the changes. I personally no longer use scenes because of that.

Cheers
Al

[mikedr]

In looking at the switches you have, and what you want to do, my recommendation is to return them and get HomeSeer WS100+ switches.

First, inclusion. Linear switches are very difficult to add and remove in my experience. I seem to recall that the instructions are wrong. You have to double or triple tap *perfectly* (i.e., with the perfect amount of time waited between presses) to get them to add or remove. I am guessing that this is the problem you're having. At our old house I had a bunch of these, and my net conclusion was *never again.* The only reason I would go with a Linear switch at this point is if you require a color that no other switch comes in.

The problems you're seeing with inclusion are exactly what I recall having. I did finally get the rhythm down, but it was still a painful process.

Second, turn on one/have all the others turn on. This requires instant status. That is, when you press a switch, HomeSeer has to be instantly informed, so that the event you create ("when switch A changes and becomes ON, turn on switches B, C, D") can properly fire. The Linears are not instant status. GE switches provide some type of instant status, but it's pseudo (basically only works if the switches talk directly to the controller). The only switches available that are true instant status right on are the HomeSeer switches.

The Linears are instead polled (that is, the Zee asks the device, "what's your status" and the device reports back). The default polling period is 20 minutes. You can lower this, but to get anything near-instant status (e.g., polling every second) is a recipe for disaster in a Z-Wave network. If you have a special switch or two you can get away with polling down to a 90 second interval I've found, but I wouldn't recommend polling every second, and don't think anyone here would either.

Also, one note on an inherent limitation of the Z-Wave protocol. In the example above, turning on switches B, C, and D will not be perfectly synchronized in time. Rather, the switches will all turn on within the same half second or second. It's perceptible. Not a big deal to me, or my wife, but some people do not like it. Not a HomeSeer issue, but a Z-Wave issue.

[TXDego]

Mike, thanks for following up. Based on the others advice, I was able to add the various switches, went fairly painless once I added the switches right next to the control unit. Used EWK's trick with the CAT5 for the switches I already had installed. Since I already have the switches installed, really don't want to take them back out unless I really have to.