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    Z-Net Acting as a Router??

    I have had an ongoing issue with my internet. I get a warning of "Connected, no Internet". It's been a real battle trying to figure out the culprit.

    One of the oddities is that when I call Optimum for support they say there are two routers. It even happened when I bought a Netgear router. The first thing the setup screen said, can you disconnect the other router. There is no other router, but it appears the z-net may be showing as one. Can this be? Anyone experience anything like this?

    I'm curious if there's a way to disable the z-net wifi. I've never set it up, since I'm hardwired. For awhile I had the z-net going into a switch, the minipc with HS3 going to the same switch and the switch going to the router. But now I'm back to a more conventional, everything directly to the router...no switch. This, just in case that could have been part of the issue.

    The other weird thing is the z-net wifi shows 169.254.xxx.xxx and that's nothing like everything else on my system which is the usual 192.168.1.x. What's that about?

    #2
    Z-Net Acting as a Router??

    no.

    One of the oddities is that when I call Optimum for support they say there are two routers. It even happened when I bought a Netgear router. The first thing the setup screen said, can you disconnect the other router.

    The ISP modem or first device that your outside wire connects to is a router. It is the provisioning box for your internet service. You cannot see the configuration and it is totally managed by your ISP. So actually there are two routers in place on everybody's ISP connection. Typically the client / user / customer only sees the router connected to your modem which is your 1st real router). Historically this box has been called a modem. It connects to cable, fiber, long haul wireless, satellite or a phone line (DSL) and converts that stuff over to standard IP.

    Well I take that back. If you have a Motorola / Arris SB modem you can see it but not change it using the IP address of 192.168.100.1. It does show diagnostic information relating to your cable connection. Personally I do not thing you have an issue with the connection from your ISP to your ISP modem.

    I am not familiar with a Netgear Router. SOHO routers though are basically all the same; just different gui's maybe. That said typically a router to modem connection utilizes the mac address to the router. If replacing the router you have to shut down the modem and Netgear router; then boot up the ISP modem first, then the Netgear router second such that your modem sees the new Netgear router with the new mac address. The modem binds to this new Netgear mac address. Your ISP is seeing two router MAC addresses from the outside probably old one and new one. Your ISP modem is still configured to your old router. Typically this plug n play. You may default to your ISP provisioning page where you have to validate yourself as a customer of your ISP. Easy stuff. Typically it is your account number. When booting is all done then just connect a laptop to your Netgear Router and it should default to the ISP configuration page. If not just type in your Optimum web page in your browser.

    Next considered router is typically one device that you connect to the ISP modem. This can be your combo Netgear router. It typically does DHCP to your modem and your modems hands it an IP. This is called the WAN side of your combo router/firewall/wireless access point. On the inside LAN piece typically there are multiple network ports. This side by default does DHCP server functions and doles out IPs to the inside of your network.

    Note none of the above is related to your ZNet device. It is only related to the installation of your new Netgear router. Powering off the modem and Netgar router, then powering up your modem then your netgear router should solve the issues you are having.

    Baby steps first; get on the Internet then the rest should be easy....




    The ZNet device is an RPi with one wired network interface and one wireless network interface. If both of them wired and wireless are enabled and connected to your network your router-Netgear will see two ZNet devices with two IPs (one wired and one wireless).

    The other weird thing is the z-net wifi shows 169.254.xxx.xxx and that's nothing like everything else on my system which is the usual 192.168.1.x. What's that about?
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    Your wireless IP of 169.254.xxx.xxx is reserved by Microsoft as a private network address and used when the interface cannot find a DHCP server (not connected to anything). Leaving it this way shouldn't harm anything or use of the ZNet box.

    You can disable the WiFi via the ZNet web interface. The ZNet GUI should show both mechanisms of network connectivity (wifi and lan). Just disable WiFi.

    You can also disable the wifi via ssh and editing the network configuration files. Not sure if you are familiar with using SSH and the RPi / Linux command line stuff.
    Last edited by Pete; July 20, 2017, 05:28 PM.
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      #3
      I pretty much understand most of what you are saying. The weird part is I plugged in a new Arris modem AND router that Optimum sent me. Somehow the old IP table was still coming up as if Optimum didn't flush out properly. In addition the table would show the name of a security camera next to the mac address of a tablet. Weird stuff. Not sure any of this weirdness affects the root problem but weird none the less.

      For now I have a new Arris modem and a Netgear router that appear to be functioning properly. I'll leave the z-net wifi alone since the router only sees one z-net.

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        #4
        Google "arris modem bridge mode". That how I'm set up. The ISP provided modem includes a full router (wired+wireless) but I bridged over (i.e. disabled) that so my Netgear router's WAN side gets the ISP assigned IP address.

        The 169.254.x.x is called a link-local address and is defined in one of the internet governing docs (RFC 3927). It just means that the interface wasn't able to acquire an address via DHCP, meaning its effectively disabled. You can get heroic and disable it completely, or set up "roaming" so that it only activates when the wired is disconnected, but you won't notice any difference.

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          #5
          Arris modem AND router

          As zwolfpack mentions above looks like you have a combo modem, router, switch, firewall and access point from your ISP such that when you plug in your Netgear router to your new ISP full router and you have two routers connected to your ISP.

          You can put the Arris combo device in to bridge mode as mentioned by zwolfpack to be able to utilize your personal Netgear router or just purchase a Arris modem a la carte. Thinking I paid some $35 for my Motorola SB6141 new. I just had to register it with the ISP when I pulled out the older Motorola modem.

          Guess you will be paying a monthly fee rental charge for the new ISP combo. You can just purchase a pure modem device on Amazon today that will provide you with just a modem that will work with your ISP and alleviate the monthly rental cost.

          The new cable modems and your box now work up to Gb speeds on the Internet. All of the new modems are like this.
          - Pete

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            #6
            My Arris is a TM1602. None of the instructions would apply because I couldn't get to 192.168.0.1, I think. I'll keep searching.

            Hmm, I might have to connect the modem directly to the PC. I'll keep trying
            Last edited by racerfern; July 20, 2017, 07:13 PM. Reason: add

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              #7
              Originally posted by racerfern View Post
              My Arris is a TM1602. None of the instructions would apply because I couldn't get to 192.168.0.1, I think. I'll keep searching.
              You would have to temporarily connect your computer to one of the LAN ports on the modem to do this. The computer would get assigned a 192.168.0.x address.

              Comment


                #8
                Googling some noticed too that the Arris TM1602 also is doing VOIP. Here went to Ooma a few years back.

                Users are also mentioning that the diagnostic GUI on the TM1602 is off but you can still ping it.

                The other IP is 192.168.0.1 (here mentioned 192.168.100.1). Note my main subnet here is 192.168.244.128 such that I am accessing the diagnostic mention through my PFSense firewall (IP of 192.168.100.1). Doesn't much matter in your case as it is just configuring your box in bridge mode or putting one port in a DMZ.

                I do keep a hot spare modem here and do everything else a la carte.

                Arris TM1602 to Netgear - this shouldn't affect your VOIP stuff.

                1 - Arris TM1602 bridge port to Netgear ==> pass everything to the Netgear and let the Netgear do the work) * disable WAP
                2 - Arris TM1602 make the port a DMZ ==> pass everything to the Netgear and let the Netgear do the work) * disable WAP
                Last edited by Pete; July 20, 2017, 07:41 PM.
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                  #9
                  A Z-Net that has built in WiFi and has no SSID entered will acquire a local address outside your DHCP pool. What I do to keep mine (all three) from showing up in my network monitoring utilities is to enter "Not Used" as the SSID. You can see this in the two screenshots below. The top one has "Not Used" as the SSID and the bottom one is blank. Either way the WiFi will not connect to anything, but if you don't want it to make up an IP address, don't leave the SSID blank.

                  Your ISP may see the bogus IP and assume you have two routers.

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Click image for larger version

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                    #10
                    @zwolfpack Hmm, I can't access 192.168.0.1 when connected directly to the modem. I can go to 192.168.100.1 and see a bunch of stats but that's it.

                    @Pete I don't pay for the modem or router. Optimum provides it as part of the monthly charge probably because of intense competition with Fios.

                    I have succeeded keeping it the wifi (thanks all).

                    I am convinced that the root problem is at the Optimum mother ship. For example, I installed a new modem and a new router, restarted computers, flushed DNS yet the basic ip addresses came back up as if everything was before the changeover of all equipment. Obviously none of this equipment would know that I had a reservation of 192.168.1.175 for a specific piece, yet that's exactly where it came back up. And for some unknown reason, with nothing else going on, my z-net that was at 192.168.1.4 suddenly moved to .174. At that point I had to close HS and restart the z-net to get things working again. Why do ip addresses change by themselves? Frustrating.

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                      #11
                      I think you have the Netgear R7800 like mine. Login, the go to the Internet tab. If the router in the moden is bridged, you will see something like this, where the IP address is the outward-facing address assigned by your ISP. If, on the otherhand, you have something starting with 192.168, then the modem-router is active. If so, its address will be shown in the field "Gateway IP Address" at the Netgear. I thought that was 192.168.0.1, but could be wrong.
                      Attached Files

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                        #12
                        Yes the 192.168.100.1 is just a diagnostic page which shows your firmware and signal strength stuff. I have historically posted this information on the Comcast site for the moderators there (which are guru's). You used to be able to reset or reboot the modem from the page.

                        [ATTACH]62403[/ATTACH]

                        Well that is good that you do not pay for the modem / router.

                        Having the Netgear box and the ISP combo box on line will always show two routers.

                        That and connecting the WAN port of Netgear box to a LAN port of the ISP modem will have two boxes doing DHCP on the same network if they are interconnected.

                        So yes the ISP Arris Modem TM1602 mother ship and Netgate mothership on the same LAN is the problem. It is doing it's job though and there is nothing wrong with it.

                        When I got FIOS it was a combo box with coaxial (Moca) ports, RJ-45 NIC ports, modem and wireless on it.

                        I got STB's and one DVR for the TVs there. Installer used the existing coaxial cables (MOCA. The STBs and DVR all had IPs. I personally connected up the RJ-45 cables to the box in a Leviton can in the wiring closest.)

                        I wanted to use my own combo firewall / access point router and used a Linksys WRT-54G with a DDWRT OS on it. I just configured one port of the Verizon box as a DMZ to allow all the traffic through it and disconnected the rest of the RJ-45 cables and connected these cables to the Linksys box. The other way to do this is to bridge the port as described by zwolfpack. Whatever you decide to do do not put both boxes on the same network with different IP subnets and two DHCP servers running; it will cause you grief.

                        So essentially I had two routers in place. The Verizon router (and modem) and my router. I left the TV stuff on the Verizon router coaxial (moca network) and had my Linksys for wireless and wired access.

                        This is sort of a custom set up such that if Verizon reset the router I would have to reconfigure the box to my box.

                        I also redid my subnet, mask, IPs and DHCP scope. Typically nobody has 254 devices on their default configured subnet.

                        Here cut it to half and changed my DHCP scope like so.

                        I went to a :

                        255.255.255.128 /25 bit subnet mask

                        Hardware devices were given static low IPs...

                        IE: router is configured to IP of 192.168.244.129/25 (so is DNS and Gateway address)

                        Static IP's up to the beginning of the DHCP scope. I made mine small ...starting around .240 to 254. IE: 192.168.244.240-192.168.244.254

                        Organized the server IPs, desktop IPs, laptop Ips a bit. Easy to do this using this online IP subnet calculator located here: Online subnet calculator

                        Then statically assign using DHCP / MAC address devices with no configuration menu's like my HDHomerun tuners.

                        This is a bit over the top here....though I close to 100 devices on the network here today. Driving wife nuts here as of yesterday connected 4th tabletop touchscreen in the family room. Testing it just put it on the fireplace mantel.
                        Last edited by Pete; July 22, 2017, 07:22 PM.
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                          #13
                          Regarding your address changing issue, make sure the router reservation is set up properly. The MAC address on the znet admin page must match (except case) the MAC address on the Netgear's reservation page (Advanced->Setup->LAN Setup)
                          Attached Files

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                            #14
                            I think I finally drilled to the bottom of this problem.

                            For whatever reason the router or the device would not honor an IP assignment, it would put my android device wherever it wanted, which I assume created a conflict.

                            I had to let the router decide where it wants to put a device, then reserve that IP in the router settings AND switch the tablet/phone to DHCP and assign the same IP. So far so good.

                            The question now is, can I/should I do the same with the z-net? Can I both reserve it in the router table and DHCP assign it in the z-net configuration?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              For whatever reason the router or the device would not honor an IP assignment, it would put my android device wherever it wanted, which I assume created a conflict.

                              I had to let the router decide where it wants to put a device, then reserve that IP in the router settings AND switch the tablet/phone to DHCP and assign the same IP.


                              The above two sentences do not make any sense.

                              Here with DHCP tables I have always been able to delete configured IPs / MACs if they no longer are on line.

                              Write down the IP's / macs of your statically configured via DHCP devices.

                              1 - Delete all of your DHCP assigned devices. You should be able to see these devices in the DHCP table and be able to delete them. Shut off ALL of the devices you are doing DHCP with.
                              2 - Let the ZNet get a DHCP address and the rest of your phones and tablets.
                              3 - then statically assign an address to your ZNet and any other devices you want to have statically assigned by DHCP. Make sure you do not utilize the DHCP scope. The DHCP scope is what range of IPs you are using with your DHCP.

                              Can I both reserve it in the router table and DHCP assign it in the z-net configuration?

                              Yes that is a feature of statically assigning a DHCP address via MAC address. Leave the ZNet at default DHCP and do your stuff on the router.

                              You can get creative and change the mac address on the ZNet. This is called spoofing. You can do the same with Windows computers.
                              Here with my tabletop tablets I used the Realtek SROM NIC programmer to change the MAC on the NIC card.

                              Just make sure you statically assign an IP that is not in your DHCP scope.

                              Here is my setup.

                              Base LAN is a /25 bit mask or 255.255.255.128

                              Router IP is:

                              192.168.245.129 - mask ==> 255.255.255.128

                              Subnet IPs are: 192.168.245.129 ===> 192.168.245.254

                              I keep the scope of DHCP small as most of my devices have static IPs or DHCP assigned IPs.

                              The DHCP scope is ---NOTE = The DHCP scope can be any IP to any IP in the same subnet.

                              192.168.245.248 to 192.168.245.253 (I keep the 254 address for testing purposes)==> 6 DHCP devices in my DHCP Scope.

                              Manually assigning a DHCP static IP you would just pick your MAC address then assign it a static IP BELOW or equal to 192.168.245.247

                              You can make this any size you want..say you wanted 20 IPs in the DHCP scope you would

                              192.168.245.233 to 192.168.245.253

                              Manually assigning a DHCP static IP you would just pick your MAC address then assign it a static IP BELOW or equal to 192.168.245.233

                              Here also arrange my devices in groups of static IPs.

                              IE: my VOIP box, switches, serial servers, USB servers, et al are low IPs closest to the 192.168.245.129 router IP.

                              I sort of divide them up in to 20's.

                              Here also change mac addresses on my tabletop tablets...

                              IE:

                              1 - tabletop tablet #1 ===> MAC address last two digits are 01 ==> IP address is 192.168.245.201
                              on and on to the current 15 tablet top tablets.

                              Easy way to do this is just to create a spreadsheet with all of your IPs and organize them using a pencil if you want.

                              I also name my devices so they make sense to me...I have 4 NAS boxes called NAS1, NAS2, NAS3, NAS4.

                              Relating to using Jessie and changing the IP from DHCP to static you just configure the static ip at the end of the DHCP configuration. This is totally different from before where the IP is statically configured in the network file.
                              Last edited by Pete; August 2, 2017, 03:18 PM.
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