Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Lightning Detection for Homeseer

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #91
    The EMP device is very basic. It provides lightning strike counts and is similar in function to the old Hobby Boards lightning counter.

    My old HB set up has a 6" copper wire that it is using as an antenna. This has worked fine in the basement and currently moving it to the attic and will be connecting it to the combo Z-Wave GPIO / 1-Wire RPi2 in the attic. It is very sensitive to lightning.

    Thinking too that I can move the MR13A device to the attic as well (rather than outside). This would probably be the most cost effective repurposing one of the old MR13A's. IE: my old W800RF is still working just fine these days.

    Concurrently Bernards EMP board got me to looking some more and I recently purchased this device to get more lightning info:



    This board is using a patented lightning detector chip which will provide distance of lightning. (via a tuned circuit and no external antenna)
    Note that this board is closer to around $30 USD.

    It is three connections to the RPi - two GPIO and one IRQ (plus power).



    Follow up at 1849c time...

    On and off stormy today, wind and rain mostly and no thunder / lightning nearby...no beeps...

    and

    validated that my parrot owns her linus blanket....
    Last edited by Pete; June 28, 2017, 06:54 PM.
    - Pete

    Auto mator
    Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
    Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
    HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

    HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
    HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

    X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

    Comment


      #92
      This post is just a request and a poll of users that have purchased and tested Bernards EMP sensor.

      Please post your results answering this forum post.

      Personally here have put sensor adjacent to a window. I am now powering it via a 1.5 VDC battery. I have also disconnected it from the RPi. Just listening for beeps and watching for white LED flashes. I have tested it to work with the Piezo lighter this way. I will most likely connect it to 3.0 VDC and just listen and watch for it working.

      I have not modified EMP sensor in any way. I have only tested it adjacent to a window in the kitchen.

      My results so far have been that the sensor has not worked with nearby lightning over the last 2 weeks. No beeps no LED flashes.
      - Pete

      Auto mator
      Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
      Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
      HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

      HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
      HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

      X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

      Comment


        #93
        Found software here that provides graphical pictures of EMP GPIO pulses and combines these with 9097 1-wire sensor.

        The old hobby boards dual counter does a total and rate count while the EMP sensor will do a pulse count via GPIO.

        Looking to do a test combining view of: (graphical view versus command line python view for a quickie check). Current testing RPi is original RPi and might up this to an RPi2 for testing purposes.

        1 - EMP GPIO Pulse count
        2 - Hobby Boards dual lightning counter - using dual 1-wire counters
        3 - AS3935 Lightning sensor - using two GPIO and one IRQ pin on RPi.

        Initial testing of 1-wire using HB lightning sensor. Display would do a side by side comparison.

        [ATTACH]62098[/ATTACH]
        - Pete

        Auto mator
        Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
        Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
        HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

        HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
        HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

        X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

        Comment


          #94
          Testing two new EMP sensors today. There is a note to use 3.0VDC or less battery.

          One is a tiny EMP sensor with VDC, Ground and A (analog) pin.

          It has one flashing LED on it. (will attach picture shortly).

          Second one is full sized EMP sensor with VDC, Ground, D (digital) and A (analog) pin.

          It has a power led and flash white LED on it.

          [ATTACH]62108[/ATTACH]

          Testing with 3VDC lithium battery.

          Both are very sensitive with Piezo lighter.
          - Pete

          Auto mator
          Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
          Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
          HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

          HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
          HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

          X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

          Comment


            #95
            Update after implementation

            I wanted to post an update to the thread concerning my experience so far with my lightning sensor...
            With my detector operating over 650ft from the house (which is offgrid and has no real Electromagnetic Interference (EMI)), the sensor picks up strikes as far away as 60miles! I have programmed homeseer to download a weather radar image upon "first strike" detection, and viewing the weather radar image reveals the location of the storm, and this is the best early warning system for weather I have encountered... I am not as interested in storm intensity as the presence of a storm, so false alarms are unwanted, and I have had a few triggers that only detect a single strike, but looking at the weather radar image it always indicates a storm within 60miles. So I do not consider that to be false alarms. The pcb is mounted about 6ft above ground inside a plastic junction box within a concrete structure, it uses isolated power source even though I am off grid (being possible it could get struck itself!) and it is hardwired with underground cables back to the computer room. I still use the PCB's digital output to trigger a delay timer (about 5 seconds) to allow homeseer to always "see it" trigger. So far average storms trigger it about 150-350 times. My results have been extraordinarily satisfactory, although I realize that a series of strikes could happen within the 5second time delay, and it would re-trigger the timer and count a series as a single pulse (could go on for minutes!), for this reason I programmed homeseer to add a count for every 5 additional seconds the input remains active. (still not a really accurate count method for very close repetitive strikes (but it's proven to be plenty accurate enough to discern "no lightning" from "occasional lightning" from "a killer storm".)
            I hope everyone has good luck with the sensor, mine works phenomenally better than I expected when I implemented it.

            I can see that if a manufacturer of a weather station would integrate such functionality it would be very useful to some people. But thanks to homeseer and a little PCB from eBay, I now am less worried about being pummeled by electrons working on a tractor in the pasture... I was once near a tree when it got hammered with a bolt of lightning on a clear day without warning- Not something you want to be a part of- or near to...

            Comment


              #96
              Thank you SwitchDoctor.

              Yes here geographical location is a typical suburban subdivision in the midwest adjacent to the Great Lakes. The weather here always changes including numerous storms with lightning all of the time.

              I would assume that most of the testers here are not off the grid. (I envy what you are doing).

              Here now testing two new EMP devices / designs in the home adjacent to a window.

              Very first lightning sensor here was the Hobby Boards 1-wire device that was purchased a few years ago. I built the lightning sensor per specifications provided by Hobby Boards at the time. It was mounted on the roof and worked fine for me for many many years. I golfed a lot way back and the subdivision here was surround by a golf course. I did push the weather to my smart phone at the time (started playing here with first smart phones in the 1990's palm ==> microsoft et al that utilized GPRS then in the 2000's 3 G).

              I was told that it would have also worked fine in the attic of my home.

              Last year removed it and moved it to the basement for testing. It is getting lightning counts today but not as many as when the device was on the roof.

              Fast forward to Bernard's EMP sensor.

              First testing sensor was placed adjacent to a window and the Digital output was connected to a RPi/GPIO pin for pulse counts. With many storms passing through the midwest in the last month or so the EMP sensor never triggered except for testing it with a Piezo lighter held less than an inch away from the antenna. I have two skylights in the great room here and saw the lightning strikes while concurrently never saw a trigger from the EMP sensor.

              I did ask Homeseer purchasers of said EMP sensor that I knew of if it was working for them over the last few weeks. One of three said it worked and the other two didn't see it work. Personally mine did not. (total 4 users).

              Concurrent with watching the old Hobby Boards 1-wire sensor for lightning counts here also built an AS3935 breakout board lightning sensor which is documented ===> here.

              It is understood that the AS3935 breakout board is a bit more expensive than the EMP board.

              Testing the three together only saw lightning counts from the Hobby board Lightning sensor and the AS3935 lightning sensor and never from the EMP sensor.

              In to weather a bit here such that I utilize multiple pieces of hardware, direct NOAA satellite captures via radio plus the internet. Recently also downloading local lightning maps from lightning dot org. Weather is a hobby here. Local weather is via weather instruments mostly as I try not to depend on internet some what. IE: can measure thunder here with geophone sensors (along with earth quakes and local traffic).

              I do now see some weather station companies are including a wireless lightning sensor with their weather kits. This is the first time I am seeing this.

              Currently testing the two new boards here with just a 3VDC lithium battery. No analogue or digital outputs now as I want to see the LED flash and hear the sounder work.

              Yesterday we did have some passing storms in the morning. No storms that I could see but radar indicated a passing storm a few miles from here. Both the 1-wire and AS3935 sensors indicated lightning strikes in the passing storms.

              I would say now that most Homeseer users will be looking for a plug n play solution to utilizing the EMP sensor. Plug n play meaning no soldering or additions to the EMP sensor other than a connection to an RPi or Arduino or some other already established and used mechanism of what is being utilized here today.

              7th of July, 2017

              Overhead lightning detected - distance = 1 km at 14:19:53.838 2017-07-07
              1 2017-07-07 19:21:48.004053 1 1 0

              Overhead lightning detected - distance = 1 km at 14:21:47.993 2017-07-07
              1 2017-07-07 19:22:42.710066 5 1 0

              Lightning detected - distance = 5 kms at 14:22:42.699 2017-07-07
              1 2017-07-07 19:23:48.668980 5 1 0

              Lightning detected - distance = 5 kms at 14:23:48.658 2017-07-07
              1 2017-07-07 19:25:49.172010 5 1 0

              Lightning detected - distance = 5 kms at 14:25:49.161 2017-07-07
              1 2017-07-07 19:38:49.285675 6 1 0

              Lightning detected - distance = 6 kms at 14:38:49.275 2017-07-07
              1 2017-07-07 19:47:19.987470 24 1 0

              Lightning detected - distance = 24 kms at 14:47:19.977 2017-07-07
              1 2017-07-07 19:54:57.464848 24 1 0

              Lightning detected - distance = 24 kms at 14:54:57.454 2017-07-07


              I didn't set up the new sensors until last night. I have only connected them to a 3VDC battery. One has a sounder and the other has an LED lamp indicator for lightning.

              Both appear to be much more sensitive to EMP now as both are triggering every few seconds here which is opposite of primary testing. No local storms yes such that I am guessing that the counts will increase with a storm adjacent to the home.

              What I have noticed today is that if I power all three devices via the 3VDC battery they all are sensitive now. IE: old one EMP sensor connected to the RPi2 3.3-5VDC didn't work. Now connected to a 3VDC battery is is working and very sensitive which doesn't make any sense to me.

              Initial testing was initially with a USB port 5VDC from the laptop. This went to using an RPi powered by a 5VDC transformer 3.3VDC and 5.0 VDC pins.

              Switch now to pure battery powered DC here to test. Easy peasy to do but never thought of doing the testing this way.

              Ideally I can put the coin battery inside an old X10 wireless remote and use circuit Greg mentions above and tap in to the wireless X10 circuit - maybe add if possible an opto isolator?. (going tiny here now).
              Last edited by Pete; July 8, 2017, 11:51 AM.
              - Pete

              Auto mator
              Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
              Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
              HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

              HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
              HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

              X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

              Comment


                #97
                Hi,

                I am following this with great interest and I have also have an interest in both weather and the environment in general.

                I have purchased the EMP sensor but I have not bothered to set it up as it in winter here and no lightning expected for several months.

                I believe La Crosse and Acurite have both integrate lightning detection and reporting as part of their newer products releases, so it will become more mainstream over time.

                Comment


                  #98
                  Pete's Background noise / Shielding

                  Pete- I think the emp sensor board sensitivity can be greatly reduced if your environment is full of EMI (Electromagnetic Interference) from power lines, or such things as neighbors microwave, or even an air conditioner compressor motor or a plethora of other things. If this is happening, you "should" see an occasional false trigger, and if you have ability to check spectrum can rule it out. But the more likely issue is that your windows are metallic- commonly windows use a film that is metallic and actually greatly reduces the RF passing, with an installed screen (exception being plastic screens) it is even worse.
                  The best location for the sensor would be attic, right on the underside of the roof, assuming of course you do not have metal roof. It should not be at the ridge row where metal flashing is typically used, but about halfway down to the eave for best "metal avoidance".
                  I have done one other thing that "MAY HAVE" increased the sensitivity of my detector: It is GROUNDED to common negative of the entire system. In my system the ground is also battery negative, as well as neutral "AC" power, as well as homeseer PC ground. It simply goes to everything, but is grounded at one central point (large rod at geographical center of the metal roofed solar paneled house, connecting the house frame at that point) with no other ground anywhere else lightning (or surges) cannot take alternative route to ground, so the EMP sensor may have inadvertently gained an antenna of considerable magnitude.

                  Try the negative "common" wire grounded to "something" (anything will do if you are using wireless/battery) as to offer a ground plane so the trigger pulse can travel along it [to/from earth].
                  And I HIGHLY suggest a CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN power supply, such as a DC-DC Isolated output device with a output capacitor to null the ripple. Cleaner power = cleaner signal..

                  Imagine the EMP pulse from lightning going "UP" from my ground rod, along the ground/negative wire and being sensed between the negative terminals and the air antenna of the sensor pcb, there is much more likely a difference in potential will occur if you got something planted in the earth when detecting lightning. Since everything "rides" up and down on the same ground, nothing else is affected by this, unless it is "double grounded" at two locations, to tap the different voltage across the ground plane= so it is safe unless you use dual grounding- where bad eddy currents are born...
                  Last edited by Switchdoctor; July 9, 2017, 11:05 AM.

                  Comment


                    #99
                    Concerning the post about using scraper to gather lightning data:

                    The scraper may work for some people, but I am off grid. And some people have limited internet on grid. And the location of reporting may not reflect the target location. Plus, the internet may fail during a storm in a good service area. Plus independence from the internet would never be a bad thing, no matter what my grandkids tell me...

                    I am kind of forced to gather my own weather data, and have to admit that it is liberating to not rely on any service of any kind, including the national weather service!

                    Jon00 has written a great number of scripts I use.
                    - and it is a good solution if situation allows for lightning reporting, but detection simply has to be done at the location of interest.

                    Comment


                      Pete; how the heck do you detect distance? Not that I need to do that, but that is cool as cows dancing with tutus in space... I have experience triangulating radio signals, and realized with three well placed and duplicated sensors, a computer would be able to triangulate the lightnings actual position using the analog output of the detector PCB.

                      But that vision lasted about 30 seconds before the grin wore off and I just hooked it up and went about my business. A ham radio group with multiple towers would be a prime group to tackle that. (and of course feeding the positional data into PTZ cameras atop the tower [or drone flight data] to video record the storm)
                      -Darn it. Now google or amazon will steal the idea...
                      lightning.google.com right?

                      Comment


                        Understood and thank you Switchdoctor.
                        - Pete

                        Auto mator
                        Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
                        Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
                        HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

                        HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
                        HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

                        X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

                        Comment


                          Lightning Detection for Homeseer

                          Pete identified in early post, he is also using the AS3935 breakout board and this is a Contains AS3835 Franklin Lightning Sensor IC with embedded algorithm. See http://www.playingwithfusion.com/pro...=22&catid=1012

                          As I indicated a little earlier, this is now starting to make its way into weather station with storm and lighting detection including directions, distance.



                          Comment


                            Imagine one bolt of lightning powering your home for a few days or automobile for a week....

                            Too bad no one has figured out how to harness this free energy yet.
                            - Pete

                            Auto mator
                            Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
                            Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
                            HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

                            HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
                            HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

                            X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

                            Comment


                              I now understand why intensity data is important, by looking at the commercially available lightning detecting weather stations (that i never knew existed until now!).
                              The intensity data is used along with timing to determine if a strike is approaching or passing.

                              The method would be "pretty accurate" with the right algorithm.

                              However, the reason that "I" would never had decided to do it this way is because lightning discharge intensity is a sort of crapshoot in reality.
                              If two strikes happen next to each other, one from a lower cloud to the ground and the other from the ground to a higher point, they will measure as grossly different intensity. So using intensity and assuming it will be a constant seems flawed.

                              Except that reality works in favor of sensing:
                              During the entirety of a single storms condition/lifespan, the variance of cloud level charges does not change quickly if at all, so in reality during the storms passing this data is fairly consistent. (exception being dual storms).

                              Never gave it that much thought before....


                              Now I get why intensity is important... (along with timing)

                              (except in my situation of course- I still just don't want to ride lightning while I ride a tractor or horse, I still would never trust a sensor with my life saying the storm was mostly passed!)

                              Comment


                                It all relates mostly to the Franklin lightning sensor chip by AMS. It is now around $3 USD bulk purchase of 1000.

                                I had to tune the board virtually (via python script) I purchased to the capacitor value uses which in turn uses a chart for lightning frequency.

                                For tinkerers they sell a lightning frequency generator ($200 plus). Would be interesting some day to see a lightning bolt generator. (geez you can seed clouds today; imagine generating your own lightning).

                                [ATTACH]62147[/ATTACH]

                                Lightning internet site blitzortung is using a directional lightning sensor board with multiple antennas. It is over $200 USD and you have to assemble it.


                                [ATTACH]62148[/ATTACH]


                                Owners of this device are putting a Franklin sensor inside of the box connecting it to the Blitzortung device just for comparison sake.

                                It is basically a fine tuned radio. Over the years all of the lightning sensor circuits related to the fine tuning of a lightning bolt.

                                The old Hobby boards dual counter lightning sensor needs a ground for it to function. It is omnidirectional and counters only count lightning strikes. When there is no lightning around here it is always at zero. An approaching storm the numbers go from a hundred or so to hundreds of thousand counts. I used it somewhat for a rain / storm predictor for soil moisture content Evapotranspiration numbers. Hard numbers though relating to UV mostly.

                                And golfing.

                                Best always though is sight, sound and smell (using your senses).

                                What is the frequency of lightning?

                                Lightning Strikes create powerful radio waves in the frequency range of 3 KHz (audio, VLF) through 10 MHz (shortwave radio). The VLF (3000 Hz to 30000 Hz) "lightning signatures" can travel around the world, allowing monitoring of world-wide lightning.

                                In the 1960's any AM radio / television could see local EMP static stuff (lightning and tornados). NOAA only reports actual visuals of tornadoes and funnel clouds and conditions for a tornado. IE: the volunteer NOAA storm watcher call to local NOAA.
                                - Pete

                                Auto mator
                                Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
                                Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
                                HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

                                HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
                                HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

                                X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X