www.homeseer.com    
 

Go Back   HomeSeer Message Board > HomeSeer Products & Services > HomeSeer Hardware > Legacy HomeSeer Hardware > Z-Troller™

Z-Troller™ Discussions about HomeSeer's Z-Troller Z-Wave controller

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 6th, 2015, 10:26 AM
simonmason's Avatar
simonmason simonmason is offline
Seer Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chatham, NJ, USA
Posts: 966
Group of lights turning themselves on

I have a group of lights that have started turning themselves on. It is always the same group - a combination of outdoor modules, in-wall switches (Levity and GE), etc. I don't see an event firing around this time that could explain it. So my first thought was to reset the Z-Troller. If I backup, erase, and restore - does that give me a clean Z-Troller?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old February 6th, 2015, 12:03 PM
clay2young's Avatar
clay2young clay2young is offline
Seer Deluxe
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Southern OuterBanks, NC
Posts: 298
Be Careful

It probably will not give you anything different that what you had when you backed it up.

If you are using HS3 it might destroy your setup.

In October, several z-wave plug-in betas ago (in the low to mid .170's ?), I did it.

I got my 78 Devices with no Z-Wave nodes matched, and 78 new undefined devices with the 78 node numbers. I could not manual assign the node number back to the previous Device (it was not available) even after deleteing the new Device with needed number.

I had backed up the entire HS3 Directory before starting. Copying it over still left me with a mismatched HS3 config to what was on the Z-Troller.

Had to delete all devices from the Z-Troller, erase it, delete configuration and rebuild my network and and configuration from scratch.

Never had an issue doing that with HS2. Have not tried it again with HS3, nor will I.

You might consider trying disabling the z-wave plug-in, restarting HS3, then re-enabling z-wave plug-in. That has solved some problems for me in the past.
__________________
2017-04-01: Shuttle XH81V Mini PC, dual RS232. Processor:Intel Core i7-477O5 - 3.1 GHz, 5.0 GT/s, 8MB. RAM: 16GB DDR3-1600MHz. Hard Drives:Two 240GB Internal Solid state disks (SSD). External 1T USB 3 drive. Dedicated for HomeSeer. (backup for other apps)
OS:Windows 10 Pro, HS3 3.0.0.315 with UACPass. Currently mostly Z-Wave Devices (137 nodes) 90%+ LED, Plugin 3.0.1.25, Z-NET 1.0.13. HSTouch .68, RFXCOM with 5 Sensors, MyQ plug-in, BlueIris, Pushover, Restart, Edge Browser.

Last edited by clay2young; February 6th, 2015 at 12:08 PM. Reason: Added last sentence
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old February 6th, 2015, 12:19 PM
simonmason's Avatar
simonmason simonmason is offline
Seer Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chatham, NJ, USA
Posts: 966
Sorry - I should have mentioned that I am on HS2 (still stuck with two two legacy plugins hoping that they will be updated). The question is - is it possible that my phantom on/off situation would be fixed by this?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old February 6th, 2015, 06:49 PM
simonmason's Avatar
simonmason simonmason is offline
Seer Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chatham, NJ, USA
Posts: 966
The lights in question are showing:

!~Device Update~!

in the log. This seems to imply that Homeseer is just detecting that their status has changed - right? So assuming that no one is activating these lights what could be causing them to come on? I used to have this issue in the old X-10 days but I didn't expect it with z-wave?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old February 6th, 2015, 07:15 PM
rprade's Avatar
rprade rprade is offline
OverSeer
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,897
It is unlikely that the Z-Troller is sending random commands. It is also very unlikely that erasing it and restoring from backup would cure it even if it as. We have seen a rash of defective Z-Wave devices that have gone noisy. They can begin transmitting randomly resulting in a slowed network, a failed network and even random commands in some instances. First I would check to see if the devices that are turning on are set to respond to an "all on" command. If they are, disable it in parameters. Second, if the group of devices are on different circuit breakers I would try killing circuits to see if you could isolate the device or group of devices responsible. Sometimes power cycling a noisy Z-Wave device will cure it for a while, but hey will usually revert to their bad behavior.
__________________
Randy Prade
Aurora, CO
Prades.net

"Do or do not, there is no try"
-Yoda

PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old February 7th, 2015, 09:23 AM
simonmason's Avatar
simonmason simonmason is offline
Seer Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chatham, NJ, USA
Posts: 966
Thanks, I went through all of my devices and all of them were set to respond to All On. I switched this off.

If a bad device was transmitting an all on command then in theory all of the devices should have gone on - not just the same subset each time? But I will watch it today to see what happens.

Is there a detailed log for the z-wave traffic. Something I could look at to see what precedes this group of lights turning on?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old February 7th, 2015, 06:35 PM
simonmason's Avatar
simonmason simonmason is offline
Seer Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chatham, NJ, USA
Posts: 966
Ok, that didn't work. The lights went on again this afternoon. I am looking at the log and I can't see any connection between other events and these lights going on.

Some of the switches do not have an option to respond to all lights on in the configuration yet they go on.

Is there any other way to hunt down this bad switch?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old February 7th, 2015, 07:11 PM
rprade's Avatar
rprade rprade is offline
OverSeer
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,897
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonmason View Post
Thanks, I went through all of my devices and all of them were set to respond to All On. I switched this off.

If a bad device was transmitting an all on command then in theory all of the devices should have gone on - not just the same subset each time? But I will watch it today to see what happens.

Is there a detailed log for the z-wave traffic. Something I could look at to see what precedes this group of lights turning on?
There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause when it transmits pure noise. I'm not saying that is definitely happening, just that would be the most likely culprit since there is nothing in the HS logs indicating commands are being sent. There have been a few cases of failed Z-Sticks generating erratic commands, but I cant recall reading of a Z-Troller doing that.

You could turn on Z-Wave debugging, but it is a log few of us can decipher. You get there from Plug-ins>Manage then click on the Z-Wave name in the bottom left corner. Then you will get the screen below to enable Debug Logging. The logs will be in your HomeSeer HS3/Debug Logs directory. They will get VERY large Very fast.
Attached Images
  
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old February 7th, 2015, 07:15 PM
rprade's Avatar
rprade rprade is offline
OverSeer
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,897
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonmason View Post
Ok, that didn't work. The lights went on again this afternoon. I am looking at the log and I can't see any connection between other events and these lights going on.

Some of the switches do not have an option to respond to all lights on in the configuration yet they go on.

Is there any other way to hunt down this bad switch?
Only by disconnecting them one at a time. Most wall switches have air gap switches that will disconnect them, other than that you can kill entire branch circuits int he house one at a time to see if the symptoms stop. You would only need to kill circuits that have Z-Wave devices on them. The sad thing is that the device that is causing the problems may not be the one displaying them. Also if you have any battery operated motion sensors, make sure none of them is constantly transmitting. There have been reports of some HSM100s doing this with nearly dead batteries.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old February 8th, 2015, 08:38 AM
simonmason's Avatar
simonmason simonmason is offline
Seer Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chatham, NJ, USA
Posts: 966
Thanks, I will keep looking. I am running HS2 so I turned on DebugMode with a 64 to start tracking the activity. Let me see what shows up in the logs.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old February 9th, 2015, 08:33 AM
simonmason's Avatar
simonmason simonmason is offline
Seer Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chatham, NJ, USA
Posts: 966
OK, it is getting weirder. One of the lights that is turning on is a bedroom light which is one of my legacy X10 2-way switches. I have about 3 or 4 left. I have turned on script and event debugging to see if something is firing just before these lights go on.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old February 9th, 2015, 08:44 AM
S-F's Avatar
S-F S-F is offline
OverSeer
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Goobertown AR 72450
Posts: 2,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by rprade View Post
There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

Oh Snap!

My new signature!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old February 9th, 2015, 09:16 AM
simonmason's Avatar
simonmason simonmason is offline
Seer Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chatham, NJ, USA
Posts: 966
So help me out with my deductions here:

For the X-10 device to turn on then it must receive an X-10 command.

An errant z-wave device is not capable of producing a command (on it's own) that can cause an X-10 device to go on.

Also the reverse is true - if the X-10 device were bad it is not capable of switching on a set of z-wave devices.

The group of devices that are switching on are not linked - and I have disabled respond to all on with each of them.

So, something is sending an (apparently) random command to turn on the same set of devices which include two different protocols.

This starts to point more and more to Homeseer (HS2) as it is the only thing in this bizarre chain of events that is capable of doing this.

One other note - I recently switched to a new server. This issue arose after I did this. I started with a fresh install and then slowly copied all of my settings over. I am not sure if this is relevant but I thought I would mention it.

Are my deductions sound? Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old February 13th, 2015, 06:45 PM
simonmason's Avatar
simonmason simonmason is offline
Seer Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chatham, NJ, USA
Posts: 966
There has got to a better way of diagnosing a bad module. I am slowly working my way through the house and garden unplugging or disabling modules and then waiting to see if the errant commands show up. The problem is that I am now getting down to the necessary lights - which I cannot unplug or disable for any period of time.

If a bad command is going out on the network - is there absolutely no way to track its source and destination? This method of debugging is quite frustrating and so far has not revealed the culprit.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old February 13th, 2015, 09:26 PM
prsmith777 prsmith777 is offline
Seer Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Colorado
Posts: 528
I have had this problem for over a year and I could never figure out what was causing it.

It was usually the same group of devices, but not always. Sometimes it was a different set of devices and sometimes it was the same group but not all of the same group.

It got real frustrating when the bathroom heater was one of the devices that would go on and stay on for hours.

The devices involved were not all in the same location of the house and were not of the same type.

The devices were not close together in node number.

I made sure my devices were not accepting "all on" codes, and that didnt help.

I did notice that when this happens on my system, Homeseer does NOT log the event and does not know that the devices have been turned on.

I am running HS2 with three Ztrollers.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old February 14th, 2015, 08:21 AM
simonmason's Avatar
simonmason simonmason is offline
Seer Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chatham, NJ, USA
Posts: 966
Did you ever resolve it?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old February 14th, 2015, 11:46 AM
prsmith777 prsmith777 is offline
Seer Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Colorado
Posts: 528
Never did find an answer.

I wrote a script to run through my devices and turn on lights left on too long.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old February 14th, 2015, 12:06 PM
simonmason's Avatar
simonmason simonmason is offline
Seer Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chatham, NJ, USA
Posts: 966
I am getting to that point! First I will unplug or disable as many devices as I can just to see if I can catch the culprit.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old February 14th, 2015, 12:29 PM
prsmith777 prsmith777 is offline
Seer Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Colorado
Posts: 528
I gave up trying to figure this out and concentrated on the script workaround.

Determining exactly which lights to turn off and when to turn them off, however, became a different problem.

I have many timed events for lights in the evening, and I didnt want to turn those lights off. I also have many events that turn lights on with motion, so I didnt want to turn lights off in a room that had motion. I also have guests over and when they are here I didnt want to turn lights off in their room .

After many versions, I came up with a solution that uses an INI file which stores information for each room. I keep track of which devices are in each room, exempt devices, timeout time for devices, polltime, last poll, motion timeout, guest status, occupancy timeout.

Since I have so many devices and rooms, I cant poll every device often or it kills the zwave network. I came up with an algorithm that checks certains rooms based on settings and only will check a maximum five rooms every 15 minutes. I have a separate occupancy script that determines if a room is occupied and use this as well.

For timed events, when the event runs to turn on an evening light, it adds the device(s) to the exempt list. Exempt devices will never be turned off by the script. When the timed event runs to turn off evening lights, it removes the device(s) from the list. This works very well.

I also check to see if a device is out of sync with Homeseer. If Homeseer thinks the device is off and I poll it and it is on, then I log it as an error in the log file and turn it off immediately. This is the problem that we have been talking about in this thread. I see these errors in the log now and then and I have yet to figure out a pattern or cause.

With this setup, nothing stays on longer than 30 minutes that shouldnt be on.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old February 22nd, 2015, 09:08 AM
simonmason's Avatar
simonmason simonmason is offline
Seer Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chatham, NJ, USA
Posts: 966
I have slowly (and unsuccessfully) been working my way through the network trying to find the culprit. There doesn't appear to be any pattern to the errant activity - which makes it all the more frustrating!

It occurs to me that there has to be a way to install a sniffing device that can tell me where the command is coming from so I can start to zero in on the bad module? Does anyone have any experience with this? Thanks.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
After upgrade to 2.0.0.4, some lights not turning off ScottM Insteon Plug-in (Mark Sandler) 34 October 15th, 2014 07:22 PM
Lights turning on by themselves? Name HS3 / HS3PRO Discussion 5 May 24th, 2014 09:53 PM
Stopping lights from turning on! alhakeem2001 HomeSeer General Discussion Area 4 August 3rd, 2010 01:48 AM
Lights turning themselves on?? danwhiley Lighting & Primary Technology Discussion 6 June 16th, 2009 02:05 PM
lights keep turning back on bdee1 HomeSeer General Discussion Area 11 January 17th, 2006 08:11 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:41 PM.


Copyright HomeSeer Technologies, LLC