Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why do I need a thermostat?!?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Why do I need a thermostat?!?

    Is there not a way to bypass the need for an off-the-shelf thermostat? I am surprised that the HS community of geniuses have not figured out a way to use remote sensors, motorized vents, and local wall TFT displays for a simple to complex heating/cooling control system.

    #2
    Why reinvent what already works. You can add a tstat and integrate the rest a whole lot easier and it doesn't need to be replaced if you ever move.
    💁‍♂️ Support & Customer Service 🙋‍♂️ Sales Questions 🛒 Shop HomeSeer Products

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Bugman1400 View Post
      Is there not a way to bypass the need for an off-the-shelf thermostat?
      Of course! But why would you do that? What's the goal? What would you want or need that you can't already do with a plain old thermostat?
      💁‍♂️ Support & Customer Service 🙋‍♂️ Sales Questions 🛒 Shop HomeSeer Products

      Comment


        #4
        Why do I need a thermostat?!?

        I think there is a raspberry Pi project Rapsi-Nest for an occupancy learning thermostat.

        Here, I went with the TRANE XR524. It has a Z-wave interface built in so no plugins or cloud interfaces needed. it has been working well thus far.

        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

        Comment


          #5
          We have 8 heating zones. My wife wanted them to be easy to read and adjust. I installed a LCD display, mode buttons, setpoint adjustment buttons, humidity sensor and temperature sensor in each zone. All of these devices communicate wirelessly with HomeSeer.

          They are Z-Wave thermostats

          Joking aside, the real smarts comes from what is done with the data by HS. Ours set back when we leave home, set forward when we get close to home. They set back and warm up on a schedule that is adjusted for work days, non work days, weekends and vacation. Some rooms are not raised above their set back temperatures if they have not been occupied recently. The set back temperatures and recovery time are adjusted based on outside temperature. The humidity sensors in the bathroom thermostats affect how long the exhaust fans run. The bathrooms are warmed up to a toasty level for morning showers when it is cold outside. Boiler cycle times are controlled to avoid short cycles when possible. Hot water heating is controlled to make the best use of energy, recovering as much heat from the boiler as possible, when the heat is not running.
          HS4 Pro, 4.2.19.0 Windows 10 pro, Supermicro LP Xeon

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by rprade View Post
            We have 8 heating zones. My wife wanted them to be easy to read and adjust. I installed a LCD display, mode buttons, setpoint adjustment buttons, humidity sensor and temperature sensor in each zone. All of these devices communicate wirelessly with HomeSeer.

            They are Z-Wave thermostats

            Joking aside, the real smarts comes from what is done with the data by HS. Ours set back when we leave home, set forward when we get close to home. They set back and warm up on a schedule that is adjusted for work days, non work days, weekends and vacation. Some rooms are not raised above their set back temperatures if they have not been occupied recently. The set back temperatures and recovery time are adjusted based on outside temperature. The humidity sensors in the bathroom thermostats affect how long the exhaust fans run. The bathrooms are warmed up to a toasty level for morning showers
            when it is cold outside. Boiler cycle times are controlled to avoid short cycles when possible. Hot water heating is controlled to make the best use of energy, recovering as much heat from the boiler as possible, when the heat is not running.
            Care to share the detailed design of your system? My house has an uneven cooling/heating pattern. For one, the master bedroom is over the garage. Second, the 2nd floor has a common area that is open to the first floor with a high ceiling. This area also has the t-stat of the second HVAC unit and does not accurately measure the temps of the master or other bedrooms. The Aprilaire 8800 t-stat in this area seems pointless. I'd rather have multiple sensors and multiple motorized dampers. Then, each room could have its own set point set by the occupant via iPhone, iPad or whatever. I also like the idea of adding humidity sensors to the bathrooms to auto control the fans.
            Please list what devices you have for this system. Warning, I will then probably ask you about your HS code.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Bugman1400 View Post
              Care to share the detailed design of your system? My house has an uneven cooling/heating pattern. For one, the master bedroom is over the garage. Second, the 2nd floor has a common area that is open to the first floor with a high ceiling. This area also has the t-stat of the second HVAC unit and does not accurately measure the temps of the master or other bedrooms. The Aprilaire 8800 t-stat in this area seems pointless. I'd rather have multiple sensors and multiple motorized dampers. Then, each room could have its own set point set by the occupant via iPhone, iPad or whatever. I also like the idea of adding humidity sensors to the bathrooms to auto control the fans.
              Please list what devices you have for this system. Warning, I will then probably ask you about your HS code.
              Mine is a hydronic (hot water) heating only system. We have a boiler, 8 heating zones and a DHW (domestic hot water) zone. Each zone has a motorized valve with a microswitch to show it is open. Each heating zone has a thermostat, directly controlling the zone valve. Each end switch goes to an Arduino input and each zone has a relay driven by an Arduino output. The DHW zone is controlled by an Arduino driven relay. A DS18B20 OneWire temperature sensor monitors the water temperature. There is a backup Honeywell digital temperature controller, in case HomeSeer is offline.

              There is a DS18B20 OneWire sensor on the supply and return side of all 9 zones as well as the supply and return of the boiler. The boiler circulator and burner are separately controlled by Arduino driven relays.

              When HomeSeer has control, zone valves, circulator and burner are all controlled by automation. If HomeSeer is down, an Arduino "alive" pin goes low allowing all heating and hot water to revert to a standard 24V electo-mechanical system.

              It is all event driven, no scripts are used. I wrote about the initial design in this thread, but it has evolved a little since then.

              In Colorado, air conditioning is nice to have, but used infrequently. Our air-conditioning is 4 zones of LG mini-split cooling and is not automated.
              HS4 Pro, 4.2.19.0 Windows 10 pro, Supermicro LP Xeon

              Comment


                #8
                My house has an uneven cooling/heating pattern. I also like the idea of adding humidity sensors to the bathrooms to auto control the fans......

                You need to redesign your HVAC zones to be efficient.

                Then use thermostats to effectively cool or heat areas in your home.

                Software or thermostats will not fix your issues.
                - Pete

                Auto mator
                Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
                Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
                HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

                HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
                HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

                X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

                Comment


                  #9
                  Its not uncommon to have these issues with a two story house. As most folks know, the downstairs is typically much cooler than upstairs. The real need is to have different set points for each bedroom. I like it at 70 during the night but, that is too cold for my kids. In the winter, it's different, I set the existing t-stat at 70 but, my bedroom temp rises to 78 because the t-stat doesn't shut off. This because I keep my BR door closed at night and the sensor doesn't get the correct feedback. Plus, it is located in a common area between the first and second floor and gets feedback from the first floor which may have a different set point.

                  I would also like the feature of changing the set point automatically in the morning just before I wake up.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Folks, bear in mind you can't just slap in dampers to make the system work. The system deeds to be designed around the intended zones and balanced accordingly. Too, consider the cost of dampers and the associated control boards... which even some home warranties won't cover.

                    As for the thermostat, they are cheaply made by mass production and tailored to the task. Trying to build a substitute appurtenance is merely creating a thermostat by any other name and taking on the sole responsibility of compatibility with the HVAC equipment and associated warranty and repair.

                    Unless you care to do your own repairs, I can only guess that the average HVAC tech would see this whole undertaking as a mechanic's nightmare.... and charge accordingly, if he didn't run from the premises in terror, at first sight...
                    HomeSeer Version: HS4 Pro Edition 4.2.19.0 (Windows - Running as a Service)
                    Home Assistant 2024.3
                    Operating System: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro - Desktop
                    Z-Wave Devices via two Z-Net G3s
                    Zigbee Devices via RaspBee on RPi 3b+
                    WiFi Devices via Internal Router.

                    Enabled Plug-Ins
                    AK GoogleCalendar 4.0.4.16,AK HomeAssistant 4.0.1.23,AK SmartDevice 4.0.5.1,AK Weather 4.0.5.181,AmbientWeather 3.0.1.9,Big6 3.44.0.0,BLBackup 2.0.64.0,BLGData 3.0.55.0,BLLock 3.0.39.0,BLUPS 2.0.26.0,Device History 4.5.1.1,EasyTrigger 3.0.0.76,Harmony Hub 4.0.14.0,HSBuddy 4.51.303.0,JowiHue 4.1.4.0,LG ThinQ 4.0.26.0,ONVIF Events 1.0.0.5,SDJ-Health 3.1.1.9,TPLinkSmartHome4 2022.12.30.0,UltraCID3 3.0.6681.34300,Z-Wave 4.1.3.0

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Why do I need a thermostat?!?

                      Be careful with dampeners. They will have an effect on static pressure, which indicates over driving your furnace (and causing premature failure.

                      Here, we live in a ranch style house built in 2001. The basement was finished after the original construction. Our Windows are original builder grade double pane on the first floor and basement rear windows. We have a single metal framed single pane window in the basement. it is used on a window well.

                      I can tell the seal in the big window in our master bedroom and master bathroom failed. My hope is to get all the windows replaced. My next maintenance purchase will be to replace the furnace (also original to the house). I will add in an attic fan then as well and attempt to add it into automation. My hope is to address any airflow issues at that time.

                      In the meantime, what I have done is automated the ceiling fans on my bedroom and upstairs living room. They turn on whenever the TRANE XR524 shows the furnace fan cycling on For heating/cooling or in circulation mode.

                      I have been working on home occupancy and had to tighten up the occupied/unoccupied temps as the furnace started running more often.

                      My next major event will be to adjust temp setting based on outside weather.


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                      Last edited by Kerat; October 20, 2017, 05:17 PM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I am surprised that the HS community of geniuses have not figured out a way to use remote sensors, motorized vents, and local wall TFT displays for a simple to complex heating/cooling control system.
                        I have not had a conventional thermostat in use since about 2008 (UK Z-Wave thermostats still aren't really commonplace), mine has always been a DIY solution with HS doing the computing of temperatures and determining whether or not heating should be off/on. It is fairly simple logic to have a basic thermostat and can be done in a simple script and you can tailor it to suit your needs.

                        The downsides are that if HS dies then I am back to manual control (which I did leave in intentionally) and does rely on HS behaving itself for the heating not to be stuck on.

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X