HS3 - Zigbee Plug-In

[Pete]

Yeah it's more that Homeseer 3 can work with a bunch of different technologies however it is done.

Not knocking anything here but I personally prefer to try the new stuff using Homeseer 3 than buying some new automation hub running separate / autonomous automation.

That today though gets a bit hectic and resource intensive considering the push of whatever almost ever month with new start ups.

Many automation newbies sometimes come here after a visit to their local big box store / office supply store asking if Homeseer with work with this or that and why it doesn't on the supposition that these box box stores are pushing their own wares as the standards of automation.

Well if XX big box store is selling XX then it must be good?

Relating to GE; I am willing to play but over the years GE has not made me a happy camper with thousands of dollars spent on GE appliances with lifetimes of a year or two.

What makes them build a better automation widget than an appliance? (or a big power plant?)

I know I am writing apples and oranges here but GE has soured and personally their reinventing of stuff doesn't change my sour taste of them.

[ufd108]

Hi Mark,

I'm not trying to start an argument; actually, I'm on the fence whether or not to purchase Homeseer so I'm just trying to understand the philosophy before I lock myself in. I'm currently using Vera and want to move to something better. There is so much (finally) happening in the HA market that I'm just trying to make the right decision.

With that said, let me address some of your comments:

Actually, according to the Zigbee Alliance website (as of 10 seconds ago), there are 1,094 Zigbee certified products. The Z-Wave Alliance was touting 1,300+ products a few months ago... not sure how many more have been certified since then. FYI ***Update*** I just looked at the Z-Wave Alliance site again... and saw a controller that has the certification number of 1,408.

I work with mostly industrial and medical customers, not consumer companies, so many of them do not certify devices, or use radio modules that are already certified. In a closed industrial system certification does not matter; they don't care if they are interoperable.

Sigma (owner of Z-Wave) is also a very large semi-conductor company. I'm guessing they weren't at this event?

We have very, very different scales of "very large." Maybe because I work for a $27 billion company, but Sigma Designs did gross sales of about $188 million last year. That does not even put them on the radar of large semiconductor companies. In the semiconductor industry we consider any company below $500 million in annual sales as "small." The companies at the training I attended all have annual sales north of a billion dollars a year; many of them are multiple billions per year.

Mark, again, I'm not trying to argue with you. 90% decided to buy Homeseer, so I'm just trying to see where the product is going.

Thanks,
Don

[Pete]

Yeah here take advantage of the base of what Homeseer offers which is a substrate to connect to just about anything hardware wise.

I understand and accept that Homeseer pushes the use of Z-Wave for automation everything.

That said my in wall light switches all talk UPB today.

After an investment of my time / XX dollars there is not going to be a changes or updates to my in wall light switches.

It is very difficult though in the beginning wanting to automate your home to make a decision relating to what is it you want to utilize.

Here the migration went from the X10 to the Insteon to the UPB in wall switch - my money my time my preference.

I do also have running Z-Wave stuff on the Homeseer server and second firmware mothership.

You can if you want make Homeseer 3 work with Zigbee for your own automation world.

Over the years that has happened with other Homeseer users wanting to automate whatever with whatever.

Many folks here on Homeseer just wait for that to happen and many folks quit waiting and just do the doo.

The base to work with is all there whether it's using serial, USB or networked automation hardware / controllers - it really is easy peasy stuff.

I never pay much attention these days to that stuff as it just works whenever and while I like to look to check if its running I do not do that much these days.

That is me though as the house does run by itself with little interaction from me these days.

That and there is automation stuff ingrained in my noggin that I am most familiar with and that itself makes automation easy for me. (well too the commercial stuff over the years).

BTW it is much easier to do this with software (AKA Homeseer) than firmware (AKA Vera). Then again it is what you are most comfortable with.

[Rupp]

Mark, again, I'm not trying to argue with you. 90% decided to buy Homeseer, so I'm just trying to see where the product is going.

Thanks,
Don

Don,
If the Zigbee hardware and software ever become popular/mainstream and standardized in the HA market someone (HS or 3rd party) will create a plugin. Have a look at the plugins available and you will see that it covers nearly everything one can imagine. When enough users want control of a device/protocol it typically happens. So I wouldn't let a single lone protocol affect your decision. Jump in an have fun.

[macromark]

Mark, again, I'm not trying to argue with you. 90% decided to buy Homeseer, so I'm just trying to see where the product is going.

Arguing's OK but no weapons... that's the rule.

Like I said at the end of my last post, we're finishing up the Echo integration and then we'll be taking another look at Zigbee. If we move ahead, we'll likely be focused on the base "HA" protocol. We did get Zigbee working with the Sylvania bulbs in our previous go around.

[jlrichar]

Well if you already invested the effort get that puppy ready for beta!

[macromark]

Well if you already invested the effort get that puppy ready for beta!

Give us a month to get our bearings. We'll be in touch.

[waynehead99]

I guess I personally don't understand the drive to zigbee. Currently there is nothing out there that could easily be used. The way they built the protocol is a nightmare and created the ability for nothing to work interoperable.

If you think you would be able to use those 20 dollar zigbee iris door sensors with a plug in and also use the control 4 stuff, you won't be able to. Two different protocols.

To me zigbee creates cheap products for a reason. They are device bonded and will not work properly with other devices. It's protocol in my eyes that is dying.

Truly if I am wrong tell me but I don't see it.

[sooty]

Like I said at the end of my last post, we're finishing up the Echo integration and then we'll be taking another look at Zigbee. If we move ahead, we'll likely be focused on the base "HA" protocol. We did get Zigbee working with the Sylvania bulbs in our previous go around.

Perhaps it might be a good use of resources to fix some of the outstanding issues with Z-Wave before moving onto something new. Here's a couple of things I would like to see addressed.

1. Recording of energy data has bugs and has had for a long time. I've reported this twice on bugzilla and also contacted Rich directly but the problem remains as of HS .198 and ZW .27.

2. Give the user the option to switch off energy recording to DB at device level. I fail to see the benefit of recording 000's of zero value readings.

From where I'm sitting, it appears to be a challenge keeping the Z-Wave plug-in up to date with new devices / changes etc, so it will be interesting to see how it works with another technology to support.

Paul..

[ufd108]

Arguing's OK but no weapons... that's the rule.

What? No weapons?

This is New Hampshire. Weapons are not optional, they're required!

[macromark]

Perhaps it might be a good use of resources to fix some of the outstanding issues with Z-Wave before moving onto something new. Here's a couple of things I would like to see addressed.

1. Recording of energy data has bugs and has had for a long time. I've reported this twice on bugzilla and also contacted Rich directly but the problem remains as of HS .198 and ZW .27.

2. Give the user the option to switch off energy recording to DB at device level. I fail to see the benefit of recording 000's of zero value readings.

From where I'm sitting, it appears to be a challenge keeping the Z-Wave plug-in up to date with new devices / changes etc, so it will be interesting to see how it works with another technology to support.

Paul..

The engineer working on Zigbee is not involved with Z-Wave, so this new work won't impact Z-Wave support. FYI

[sooty]

The engineer working on Zigbee is not involved with Z-Wave, so this new work won't impact Z-Wave support. FYI

That's good news

I do hope that that said engineer doesn't adopt the same recording to db method for energy capable devices as used for Z-Wave.

Due to the problems with the built-in energy reporting, I have now adopted my own system of data recording / charting but it's a PITA not being able to switch off the built-in system and having to clear out irrelevant data from the energy db which is accumulating at a rate of about 3000 records a day

Paul..

[simonmason]

I'll throw my two cents into this. I am interested in Zigbee for the Lutron Pico remote - they just announced a version that will support Zigbee. For $25 - the ability to mount a light switch anywhere is a very attractive capability. Not to mention that Lutron's industrial design is top notch.

90% of my lighting is zwave and mostly runs without any issues. I don't plan to switch to Zigbee but I do want to take advantage of little gems like the Pico remote.

[macromark]

I'll throw my two cents into this. I am interested in Zigbee for the Lutron Pico remote - they just announced a version that will support Zigbee. For $25 - the ability to mount a light switch anywhere is a very attractive capability. Not to mention that Lutron's industrial design is top notch.

90% of my lighting is zwave and mostly runs without any issues. I don't plan to switch to Zigbee but I do want to take advantage of little gems like the Pico remote.

Nortek/Linear is close to releasing a battery-operated Z-Wave wall switch controller (GoControl Smart Fixture Control) that can mount directly on the wall or cover an existing wall switch. That should do what you want and will be easily supported.

[simonmason]

That sounds like an ideal solution. I checked their web site and googled around but didn't see anything about this. I still like the Pico remotes as they are a really nice design and also provide multiple button configurations. But a wireless z-wave switch would be a good start.