Questions on cabin with detached shed

[heyyaggie]

I am new to home automation, but very savvy with computers/networking/surveillance and am looking to secure/better monitor our lake home. My plan of action/requirements are:
- Security cameras on both the detached metal building 100 or so yards from the cabin and also on the front and back of the cabin. Looking hard at Hikvision and Blue Iris.
- buildings would be linked wirelessly with Ubiquiti Airmax products
- Would like to implement a driveway sensor that detects incoming vehicles and depending on away / present mode would trigger interior lights to come on, along with notifying us
- would also be nice to have an electronic water valve to shut off the main water line and also have a few moisture detectors around water heaters/pressure tank, etc.

A few questions:
- Are there any recommendations on a driveway sensor? I have looked around the forums and it seems like the Dakota Alert products are well regarded. Other good options?
- As the network will be wirelessly bridged with Ubiquiti Airmax products connected to a POE switch in the detached building for cameras, I also would need some type of Z-Wave or other controller to interface with the driveway sensor, as the sensor would be about 200 yards from the house. It looks as though a HomeSeer Z-Net device is best for this?
- Is it possible in the HomeSeer software to have separate modes, so that if we are away and someone trips the driveway sensor, certain lights / actions take place; versus if we are home, i could have a separate set of actions take place?
- I would plan to build a "server" of sorts to run the Blue Iris software. Any reason why HomeSeer software wouldn't easily run on the same machine?

Thanks in Advance,
Andrew

[Uncle Michael]

Welcome to the HS Board. Your plan sounds like a good one. I can't speak to all your questions, but I'm sure others will chime in.

- Are there any recommendations on a driveway sensor? I have looked around the forums and it seems like the Dakota Alert products are well regarded. Other good options?

You will probably want two detectors set up to determine direction of travel so you can distinguish between arriving and departing vehicles.

- Is it possible in the HomeSeer software to have separate modes, so that if we are away and someone trips the driveway sensor, certain lights / actions take place; versus if we are home, i could have a separate set of actions take place?

Yes, definitely.

- I would plan to build a "server" of sorts to run the Blue Iris software. Any reason why HomeSeer software wouldn't easily run on the same machine?

A box that will handle video will easily handle HS, but I run them on separate computers. I find that having a box dedicated to HS is very beneficial for stable operation.

[cowinger]

As far as cameras go you might take a look at amcrest. The have poe cameras and nvr's. Out of TX.

As far as a computer many people like the laptop method as a dedicated. It has it's own battery back-up not to mention it is totally portable for including/excluding devices and troubleshooting.

[integlikewhoa]

You plan sound solid and similer.

I run single windows server that runs my Blueiris (Hikvision POE 4MP cameras) and Homeseer, and my UNIFI controller. I use Unifi Router, POE switch, AP's.

I use a Dakota Sensor for driveway wired to a door/window sensor. I would try an advise away from battery powered devices as much as possible especially for a place you wont be at often to change batteries.

Z-net would be perfect for the shed or out of reach places.

I use Virtual Sensor I created in Homeseer that my phone (Geofence) turns on and off. I create one person plus a guest switch I can manually turn on.

I use logic (events) to have a virtual master "Anyone Home" or "away" switch on. If a guest is over I turn on a manual virtual switch if its me or the wife it auto turns on with phone.

Based on that master home/away logic can be set for each sensor saying if sensor trips and master switch is "away" then send push alert and snap shot from camera near that sensor.

[integlikewhoa]

As far as cameras go you might take a look at amcrest. The have poe cameras and nvr's. Out of TX.

Just know there is a huge difference between Amcrest and Hikvision. Both cameras are from over seas. Neither is USA made. Amcrest doesn't have as many options eaither and has more wireless and low end plastic cameras like foscam.
https://amcrest.com/
http://www.hikvision.com/us/

As far as a computer many people like the laptop method as a dedicated. It has it's own battery back-up not to mention it is totally portable for including/excluding devices and troubleshooting.

Altho laptops are nice due to internal battery, they are not made to run 24/7 nor will they handle blueiris 24/7. Stick to a machine that can run 24/7 and fans that won't quit working when your away and overheat and shut down the computer.

Also OP......
I love my unifi stuff but If you can help it you would be much better off at running a cat6a wire from the house to the shed. Full gigabit and less maintenance. 200 yards isn't much distance. I think long run it would be better then Airmax if you can work it out.

[heyyaggie]

Thanks all for the advice. Good to know I am on the right track.

integlikewhoa - you are probably right that I should just trench in cable, but I believe the max distance is in the neighborhood of about 300 feet. By the time I get through the cabin and to the shed, I would be pushing it. Fiber, however would be a great and even better option, given the lack of associated lightning strike risk over copper.

The only reason I like the Ubiquiti products is for the fact that it is easy and clean, though probably equal in terms of the time to set up and connect vs. trenching cable and connecting.

[vasrc]

Thanks all for the advice. Good to know I am on the right track.

integlikewhoa - you are probably right that I should just trench in cable, but I believe the max distance is in the neighborhood of about 300 feet. By the time I get through the cabin and to the shed, I would be pushing it. Fiber, however would be a great and even better option, given the lack of associated lightning strike risk over copper.

The only reason I like the Ubiquiti products is for the fact that it is easy and clean, though probably equal in terms of the time to set up and connect vs. trenching cable and connecting.

If you're already using Ubiquiti, look at their Unifi G3 cameras.
I hooked my Dakota alarm (also works well as a lightning detector , to an arduino. There's a plugin for it.

Z

[integlikewhoa]

Thanks all for the advice. Good to know I am on the right track.

integlikewhoa - you are probably right that I should just trench in cable, but I believe the max distance is in the neighborhood of about 300 feet. By the time I get through the cabin and to the shed, I would be pushing it. Fiber, however would be a great and even better option, given the lack of associated lightning strike risk over copper.

The only reason I like the Ubiquiti products is for the fact that it is easy and clean, though probably equal in terms of the time to set up and connect vs. trenching cable and connecting.

Like I said I use their products now and its great but your just adding more hardware to the mix that's not needed for the wireless to wireless antenna's. Speed will probley be way more then you need either way, but you can have a full gig with cat6 and probley 300 with the wireless.

Fiber might be what you need for lightning but will cost alot more not only for cable but harder to deal with and customize. Also need GBIC's on both ends to convert it back to copper anyways. Instead of a little 4-8 Port POE in the shed you'll probley need something alot bigger with a GBIC in it. Probley overkill but maybe future proof. more of a $$$ thing at that point. I have yet to do fiber or 10gig in residential myself.

[heyyaggie]

fiber is more reasonable than you would think, as are the interfaces to convert back to copper...i am pondering this.

I have used the Ubiquiti cameras with their NVR and love them in a sense, but it doesn't seem it is easy to integrate them into a custom layout in the HomeSeer app, which is a huge appeal, especially dealing with older parents who would potentially utilize it. Furthermore, it seems Hikvision is one of the leaders in the security camera realm, not to mention the vast number of options over the two options Ubiquiti has.

[cowinger]

Just know there is a huge difference between Amcrest and Hikvision. Both cameras are from over seas. Neither is USA made. Amcrest doesn't have as many options eaither and has more wireless and low end plastic cameras like foscam.
https://amcrest.com/
http://www.hikvision.com/us/

Both amcrest and hikvision have low end and upper end cameras it just depends on what you are looking for. I was just trying to say the company is located in Tx but as you say they are most likely made overseas.

Altho laptops are nice due to internal battery, they are not made to run 24/7 nor will they handle blueiris 24/7. Stick to a machine that can run 24/7 and fans that won't quit working when your away and overheat and shut down the computer.

I disagree. I have been using a laptop for years without a single problem. As far as blueiris is concerned it will run just fine and does run just fine on mine with 8gb ram. As far as the fans mine very rarely come on and I have had fans on a box computer fail as well.

[Switchdoctor]

Driveway trench

Everything I have is hardwired (except zwave locks & thermostats)
So here is what I did for CAMERAS and DRIVEWAY sensors:

My driveway is trenched hardwired- about 2000ft, (the bobcat is handy) and I built three "concrete towers" encasing the upturned conduits because no conduit should terminate at ground level and expect no ingress, within these towers I ran 48vdc for cameras and convert it to 12v at the tower location using dc-dc isolated power brick (sealed with "plastidip" just in case).
I use cat5 for video, an active balun system will transmit 4 cameras on each cat5 cable, so I ran lots of cat5 - also used the cat5 pairs to return gate alarms, and driveway sensors. (and cellular/radio activity sensors).
You should be able to visualize the camera setup from that description, so I will focus hereon with driveway sensors.

I used MIGHTY MULE "WAND" sensors (THREE OF THEM instead of two) and being buried they are not subject to being damaged by mowing, spiders, etc.
You CAN EASILY use two of them for directional detection, but I have two gates and blah-blah (not your concern).
Anyway- They are metal "in motion" sensors. So they must be away from gate far enough to not sense when gate moves, and must not be so close together that they trigger at the same time. My experience is 50-100ft apart will be perfect. (away from gate of course).
Setup homeseer to watch for either to trigger, then when the second triggers it "counts" as a valid trigger- calculate which came first will give you DIRECTION, and calculate the timing (factoring in the distance between sensors) will give you the SPEED of the vehicle.

My system keeps "TALLY" of how many cars are in the property, speed of exit/entry, gate closures, etc. But when I using the tractor around the driveway it can confuse the sensors if I drive over them criss crossed, so the "entry/exit" count only works if the gate is opened, otherwise it just watches me mow.

Cat5 can be RELIABLY run about 500ft, up to 800ft before it really starts causing issues, and if you have no interference around it likely will be ok up to that distance.
I refrain from using wireless for several reasons:
Detectable (gives away location if not the data itself)
Easily interruptible (either by accident interference, or a dubious attack)

ADDITIONALLY: my driveway sensors are used to trigger a VIDEO SNAPSHOT (frame grab) from the camera that targets each sensor. These video stills are kept in a folder until overwritten and if an alarm condition is triggered, they will be texted to my phone. (alarm being a gate opening without command, etc.) They are effective as motion sensor for the camera, keeping license plate data of vehicles coming and going.
A one day goal (if my little ATOM based processor can do it) would be importing license plate recognition text into a homeseer device!
-That would make the system "know WHO" was home or was leaving, making automation decisions easier about scheduling events (like "don't send text messages about my workshop equipment being powered on unless I am not home for over an hour") And could put "lettering" on the tractor so it can "read" when it is away- a different condition since it will never leave the property, but does leave from the driveway...

Only the LPR cameras (license plate recognition) use IR illumination. They must use illumination to read a plate if headlights are on- no exceptions.
But the OTHER cameras I prefer are non-illuminated high sensitivity.
Why? Let me explain:
IR Emitters will give away the camera location easily, and are easy to see at night (using another camera or cellphone or naked eye).
IR light attracts bugs at night. And bugs attract spiders who eat the bugs. Then you end up with a video recording of spiders "humping" your camera lens and obscuring the activity you wanted to see... Useless.
IR light cameras require more power to operate the LED illumination, otherwise the camera can operate from much less power and cooler.

The cameras I use are TRUE 0.000001 lux. With no IR Leds... They are a new product from china that basically reprograms the chipset on a sony camera board to average over a second or so in very low light, resulting in images that look like daytime; No Kidding it works as well as my night vision system does.
In fact I submitted a camera frame grab from 3:10AM.
There is zero artificial light, that is moonlight only. Very secluded away from city lights and being off-grid there is no wasted lighting.
And it was dark enough to the naked eye that you would not safely walk to the tree.

[Rvtravlr]

We have been using an i7 laptop as our Blue Iris machine and have had no issues.

We are running 7 Dahua IP POE Cameras.

Also, we find that the motion detection algorithms in BI are so good that we rely on our cameras for motion detection as opposed to battery powered devices.

[heyyaggie]

Everything I have is hardwired (except zwave locks & thermostats)
So here is what I did for CAMERAS and DRIVEWAY sensors:

My driveway is trenched hardwired- about 2000ft, (the bobcat is handy) and I built three "concrete towers" encasing the upturned conduits because no conduit should terminate at ground level and expect no ingress, within these towers I ran 48vdc for cameras and convert it to 12v at the tower location using dc-dc isolated power brick (sealed with "plastidip" just in case).
I use cat5 for video, an active balun system will transmit 4 cameras on each cat5 cable, so I ran lots of cat5 - also used the cat5 pairs to return gate alarms, and driveway sensors. (and cellular/radio activity sensors).
You should be able to visualize the camera setup from that description, so I will focus hereon with driveway sensors.

I used MIGHTY MULE "WAND" sensors (THREE OF THEM instead of two) and being buried they are not subject to being damaged by mowing, spiders, etc.
You CAN EASILY use two of them for directional detection, but I have two gates and blah-blah (not your concern).
Anyway- They are metal "in motion" sensors. So they must be away from gate far enough to not sense when gate moves, and must not be so close together that they trigger at the same time. My experience is 50-100ft apart will be perfect. (away from gate of course).
Setup homeseer to watch for either to trigger, then when the second triggers it "counts" as a valid trigger- calculate which came first will give you DIRECTION, and calculate the timing (factoring in the distance between sensors) will give you the SPEED of the vehicle.

My system keeps "TALLY" of how many cars are in the property, speed of exit/entry, gate closures, etc. But when I using the tractor around the driveway it can confuse the sensors if I drive over them criss crossed, so the "entry/exit" count only works if the gate is opened, otherwise it just watches me mow.

Cat5 can be RELIABLY run about 500ft, up to 800ft before it really starts causing issues, and if you have no interference around it likely will be ok up to that distance.
I refrain from using wireless for several reasons:
Detectable (gives away location if not the data itself)
Easily interruptible (either by accident interference, or a dubious attack)

ADDITIONALLY: my driveway sensors are used to trigger a VIDEO SNAPSHOT (frame grab) from the camera that targets each sensor. These video stills are kept in a folder until overwritten and if an alarm condition is triggered, they will be texted to my phone. (alarm being a gate opening without command, etc.) They are effective as motion sensor for the camera, keeping license plate data of vehicles coming and going.
A one day goal (if my little ATOM based processor can do it) would be importing license plate recognition text into a homeseer device!
-That would make the system "know WHO" was home or was leaving, making automation decisions easier about scheduling events (like "don't send text messages about my workshop equipment being powered on unless I am not home for over an hour") And could put "lettering" on the tractor so it can "read" when it is away- a different condition since it will never leave the property, but does leave from the driveway...

Only the LPR cameras (license plate recognition) use IR illumination. They must use illumination to read a plate if headlights are on- no exceptions.
But the OTHER cameras I prefer are non-illuminated high sensitivity.
Why? Let me explain:
IR Emitters will give away the camera location easily, and are easy to see at night (using another camera or cellphone or naked eye).
IR light attracts bugs at night. And bugs attract spiders who eat the bugs. Then you end up with a video recording of spiders "humping" your camera lens and obscuring the activity you wanted to see... Useless.
IR light cameras require more power to operate the LED illumination, otherwise the camera can operate from much less power and cooler.

The cameras I use are TRUE 0.000001 lux. With no IR Leds... They are a new product from china that basically reprograms the chipset on a sony camera board to average over a second or so in very low light, resulting in images that look like daytime; No Kidding it works as well as my night vision system does.
In fact I submitted a camera frame grab from 3:10AM.
There is zero artificial light, that is moonlight only. Very secluded away from city lights and being off-grid there is no wasted lighting.
And it was dark enough to the naked eye that you would not safely walk to the tree.

Thanks for the thorough response. What camera are you using in your example?

Also, I have read about the Mighty Mule wands and that there have been some concerns about them not truly being water proof, with osme users encasing them in PVC and sealing them well...what has your experience been?