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GE Fan switch 12730 and Instant status

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    #16
    Originally posted by Mountainman View Post
    I am talking about any of them.

    If the instant status messages really are getting routed through the nodes, this must be a new addition to the Z-Wave protocol. If so, that would be a giant improvement. Maybe someone can chime in that has read the latest spec.

    A traffic capture would answer this question. Maybe even turning on the HS detailed Z-Wave debugging might show enough to confirm the routing.
    It is not a new feature. Instant status is a command structure and has always traversed routing. If an on-off command can make the trip, instant status can. There was a workaround for devices that don't have true instant status which required a direct path to the controller. As Kerat noted, all Z-Wave devices transmit an inclusion packet (though others have called it a "hail" packet). This packet does not get routed through intermediate nodes and will only work with a direct path. When this packet is received by the HomeSeer controller, it then initiates a poll of the device to determine the status. Rich introduced a slight delay in the polling to accommodate the ramp rates of dimmers.

    My Cooper, Leviton and other true instant status devices have worked through many, many hops. The tow Cooper duplex outlets on my driveway had to go through 3-4 hops and were among the first devices I added in 2014. Their change in status is alwaws reported. Jasco (GE), Linear and other pseudo instant status devices always fail without a direct connection.

    The Leviton fan controllers do support true instant status.
    HS4 Pro, 4.2.19.0 Windows 10 pro, Supermicro LP Xeon

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      #17
      Originally posted by integlikewhoa View Post
      Maybe the term "instant status" is used incorrectly (i'm unsure to be honest) and I should say they "report instantly" instead. I'm not sure of the actual protocol they are using or homeseer switches or others, but for years all devices besides GE have "reported instantly" threw some form of protocol even when not direct. The GE z-wave plus fan switch that I tested now works in the same fashion. But I don't have the info for you on how it does it. Only know it does it. Does that make more sense?
      True instant status is covered by Lutron patent 5,905,442 titled "METHOD AND APPARATUS FOR CONTROLLING AND DETERMINING THE STATUS OF ELECTRICAL DEVICES FROM REMOTE LOCATION" is what limited other vendors from providing Instant Status. That patent expired about a year ago. The term "Instant Status" has generally been used to describe the feature covered by that patent.
      HS4 Pro, 4.2.19.0 Windows 10 pro, Supermicro LP Xeon

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        #18
        Originally posted by rprade View Post
        True instant status is covered by Lutron patent 5,905,442 titled "METHOD AND APPARATUS FOR CONTROLLING AND DETERMINING THE STATUS OF ELECTRICAL DEVICES FROM REMOTE LOCATION" is what limited other vendors from providing Instant Status. That patent expired about a year ago. The term "Instant Status" has generally been used to describe the feature covered by that patent.
        Thanks, I just dont have the info to say if that what the GEs are using or if its some other form.

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          #19
          Originally posted by rprade View Post
          Instant status is a command structure and has always traversed routing.
          Oh ok, I didn't know that. All of my Z-Wave nodes are direct to a controller in an effort to maximize reliability. So the only thing really missing from the protocol is an ack back from the controller to the device when the device generates an instant status message. As it stands now, the device has to assume the controller got the message.

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            #20
            Originally posted by integlikewhoa View Post
            Thanks, I just dont have the info to say if that what the GEs are using or if its some other form.
            It is my understanding that the new GE Z-Wave plus switches and dimmers support true Instant Status as covered by the Lutron expired patent. This instant status reporting methodology is covered in the Z-Wave and the new Z-Wave plus standards. The HomeSeer HS-Wx100+ switches also utilize the same instant status protocol as covered by the patent. The short version is that the patent prevented Z-Wave electrical control devices from reporting their actual status when it changed. This patent did not cover energy and other reporting, just the reporting of the status of a controlled electrical device. In the abstract:

            "Apparatus for controlling an electrical device by remote control including a control device coupled to the electrical device by a wire connection for providing power to the electrical device, the control device having an actuator for adjusting the status of the electrical device and a radio frequency transmitter/receiver and antenna for adjusting the status of the electrical device in response to control information in a radio frequency signal. The transmitter/receiver receives the radio frequency signal via the antenna and transmits a status radio frequency signal with information regarding the status of the electrical device".

            Now that the patent has expired any manufacturer can use it.

            The Cooper and Leviton switches paid royalties to Lutron and thus supported instant status prior to the expiration of the patent.
            HS4 Pro, 4.2.19.0 Windows 10 pro, Supermicro LP Xeon

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              #21
              Originally posted by rprade View Post
              It is my understanding that the new GE Z-Wave plus switches and dimmers support true Instant Status as covered by the Lutron expired patent. This instant status reporting methodology is covered in the Z-Wave and the new Z-Wave plus standards. The HomeSeer HS-Wx100+ switches also utilize the same instant status protocol as covered by the patent. The short version is that the patent prevented Z-Wave electrical control devices from reporting their actual status when it changed. This patent did not cover energy and other reporting, just the reporting of the status of a controlled electrical device. In the abstract:

              "Apparatus for controlling an electrical device by remote control including a control device coupled to the electrical device by a wire connection for providing power to the electrical device, the control device having an actuator for adjusting the status of the electrical device and a radio frequency transmitter/receiver and antenna for adjusting the status of the electrical device in response to control information in a radio frequency signal. The transmitter/receiver receives the radio frequency signal via the antenna and transmits a status radio frequency signal with information regarding the status of the electrical device".

              Now that the patent has expired any manufacturer can use it.

              The Cooper and Leviton switches paid royalties to Lutron and thus supported instant status prior to the expiration of the patent.

              Good to know Randy. Thank you.



              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                #22
                I might go back to GE switches if that's the case. Cheaper and easily available across the street at Lowe's. I'll keep an eye out for the plus devices and grab one.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by waynehead99 View Post
                  I might go back to GE switches if that's the case. Cheaper and easily available across the street at Lowe's. I'll keep an eye out for the plus devices and grab one.
                  Yeah make sure its the plus model. I'm finding 50/50 shot right now. Other GE devices also in plus, but not all are on the Lowes shelf. Also do some googling and take 15.00 off 50.00 order or other discounts if you order online and store pickup.

                  EDIT: Also make sure its not the ones I returned with a non plus in a plus box. LOL

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by waynehead99 View Post
                    I might go back to GE switches if that's the case. Cheaper and easily available across the street at Lowe's. I'll keep an eye out for the plus devices and grab one.
                    which ones at Lowes are the plus models? I am now starting to look at these as they now have toggle style (bet lowes only carries paddle)
                    HW - i5 4570T @2.9ghz runs @11w | 8gb ram | 128gb ssd OS - Win10 x64

                    HS - HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435

                    Plugins - BLRF 2.0.94.0 | Concord 4 3.1.13.10 | HSBuddy 3.9.605.5 | HSTouch Server 3.0.0.68 | RFXCOM 30.0.0.36 | X10 3.0.0.36 | Z-Wave 3.0.1.190

                    Hardware - EdgePort/4 DB9 Serial | RFXCOM 433MHz USB Transceiver | Superbus 2000 for Concord 4 | TI103 X-10 Interface | WGL Designs W800 RF | Z-Net Z-Wave Interface

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by TeleFragger View Post
                      which ones at Lowes are the plus models? I am now starting to look at these as they now have toggle style (bet lowes only carries paddle)


                      I haven't been to Lowe's in a bit, but will probably end up over there this weekend and take a look. I'm not sure if they are carrying the plus models yet. I just know they carry the GE switches, so I would assume eventually once stock is depleted, they would ha e the newer ones.

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                        #26
                        GE Fan switch 12730 and Instant status

                        Originally posted by waynehead99 View Post
                        I haven't been to Lowe's in a bit, but will probably end up over there this weekend and take a look. I'm not sure if they are carrying the plus models yet. I just know they carry the GE switches, so I would assume eventually once stock is depleted, they would ha e the newer ones.


                        My local Lowes has the plus model switches (14292) and the dimmers (14295). A tad further north in NJ than Jeff though. And yes, those are the toggle models. Not sure GE makes toggle style fan controllers. Lutron does.
                        cheeryfool

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by cheeryfool View Post
                          My local Lowes has the plus model switches (14292) and the dimmers (14295). A tad further north in NJ than Jeff though. And yes, those are the toggle models. Not sure GE makes toggle style fan controllers. Lutron does.
                          sweet.. thx for the info.. and you mention A tad further north in NJ than Jeff though.
                          I work in Lawrenceville NJ 62 miles from home so I think I can find them!!! LOL..

                          side note is .... are you looking at lowes cuz of any discount? amazon has the on/off for $40 and dimmable for $45...
                          HW - i5 4570T @2.9ghz runs @11w | 8gb ram | 128gb ssd OS - Win10 x64

                          HS - HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435

                          Plugins - BLRF 2.0.94.0 | Concord 4 3.1.13.10 | HSBuddy 3.9.605.5 | HSTouch Server 3.0.0.68 | RFXCOM 30.0.0.36 | X10 3.0.0.36 | Z-Wave 3.0.1.190

                          Hardware - EdgePort/4 DB9 Serial | RFXCOM 433MHz USB Transceiver | Superbus 2000 for Concord 4 | TI103 X-10 Interface | WGL Designs W800 RF | Z-Net Z-Wave Interface

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