Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Problem with 3 way wiring

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Problem with 3 way wiring

    I have searched for an answer to this but have not yet found one.

    I am trying to install a WD100 dimmer with multiple WA100 companion switches. First I installed the dimmer (in a 4-gang box with 2 other dimmers and a switch... talk about a hassle!). It works great.

    Now i am at the first of two companion boxes. I opened it up and found... just 4 wires. There is a red traveller wire, a black and white wire (I assume line and load?) and a ground. There is no neutral bundle that I can see.

    My house was built in 2013 so as far as I know all boxes should have a neutral wire. I am trying to figure out exactly what the wiring is and what my options are. I unfortunately cannot look at the fixture itself because it is a chandelier at the top of a 2 story foyer.

    In other companion switches I have wired I have connected what appeared to be line and load and I believe there have been neutral bundles.

    Am I out of luck? Am I thinking about the wires wrong? The switch I'm currently trying to install is the one we most commonly use and if it doesn't work I'm sure my wife won't be too happy.

    I can provide any additional information that may help. I'm concerned I may need to find another solution that involves not having a neutral but I'm not sure what that would be that would work with my already installed dimmer.

    Thanks

    #2
    Welcome to the Homeseer forum James.

    You cannot guess relating to 3-4 et al switch wiring.

    Best way to check wiring is with a VOM and local electrical breaker OFF.

    Pull all of the switches out that you are working on. This is low on the WAF as I have done this before. Take your time.

    Start at the main switch with the load and first pair of traveler wires.

    Using the VOM match the two traveler wires from the first box (with the load wires). to the second box then to the third box.

    [ATTACH]69783[/ATTACH]

    Note in the above drawing there are two traveler wires between the switch and aux switch plus one ground (neutral).

    Read this now:

    HS-WA100-Manual

    Check the wires with the VOM and pass a neutral, aux and hot wire to the first then second aux switch using the wires in place that you have checked and labeled.

    Here did similiar with automating 3 switches (one was on the second floor landing, next to the front door and front hallway) to the main foyer chandelier plus added a chandelier lift in the attic. Electrical was in conduit and metal boxes. I did run new or extra wires in some boxes but most of the boxes had a neutral, hot and travelers anyhow.
    Last edited by Pete; July 7, 2018, 09:34 PM.
    - Pete

    Auto mator
    Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
    Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
    HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

    HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
    HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

    X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

    Comment


      #3
      Thank you for the reply.

      I went back and reviewed the switches - it actually is a 4 way switch which I had forgotten. I replaced the other companion switch (which was in a box with another primary switch with a neutral bundle) without difficulty and it works fine.

      I'm still trying to figure out exactly what I have because the wiring does not match your diagram exactly.

      These are the two options I can come up with:



      or



      I do not have a voltimeter but am waiting on one to come via mail.

      Either of these would potentially work with what I saw in the boxes. The main box where the dimmer was was a 4 gang box with a ton of wires so I don't know what in there was for this circuit and what was for the other 3 circuits. The switch had one traveller, a black and a white wire (and ground of course). The upstairs switch had a black, a white, and two travellers. The downstairs one has only one bundle coming into the box with 4 wires (black, white, red, and ground).

      Am I correct in assuming that none of these is or can be used as a neutral wire? I initially tried leaving the black wire capped and using the white wire as neutral and that did not work (the light would not turn on). If I wire together the black and white the other switches and the light work fine (although obviously the companion switch does not as it is unpowered).

      Comment


        #4
        Am I correct in assuming that none of these is or can be used as a neutral wire?

        No. If you see it box to box and it is not used anymore then you can label it neutral and use it.



        The diagrams are just pictures posted on the internet and can be utilized as a general guideline.

        Look too at your fuse panel. You will see the white wires going to the neutral bus and the black wires going to the breakers side. Here had red wires in the panel for lower gauge wires (10-12 guage) going to the HVAC, whirlpool tub et al.

        The Obi wan original electrician here wired for ceiling fans / lights (separately) plus 1/2 of the outlet in many rooms and many 3-4-5 way switches and used a variety of colors all in new conduit.

        This is were the true test about where the wires go is best done with a VOM. Here 100% of the time have pulled switches out, disconnected and labeled all wires then rewired them all after labeling to make sure they are right.

        Most important is not to depend on the colors of the wires except maybe white (neutral) and black (hot). Here the old traveler wires were blue, load wires to lamps were yellow.

        The automated aux switch utilizes one traveler or one communications cable, hot and neutral. Here I went with automated switches versus aux switches in 3-4-5 way's.

        I capped the extra travelers or used them if needed after checking them out with a VOM and labeling them.

        Typically the first switch has a hot, neutral and load then traveling to the next switch you would have two traveler wires plus a ground (neutral).

        Here it was easier for me just to replace the old legacy aux switches with fully functional automated switches which just linked to the primary switch. It is more expensive to do it this way.

        Be safe and go slow and do not make assumptions. When it is an area that is used all of the time I do the work with small windows of time where no one is in the house.
        - Pete

        Auto mator
        Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
        Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
        HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

        HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
        HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

        X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

        Comment

        Working...
        X