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  #1  
Old May 18th, 2017, 08:34 PM
Willie Willie is offline
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What PC/Mini PC to use to run HS Software

I have looked for hours on the message board? To find current information on a good Mini PC to run the HS software. Could someone give me a few suggestions.....Thanks
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  #2  
Old May 18th, 2017, 09:17 PM
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Welcome to the Homeseer forum Willie!

Many users here have had good luck with running Windows / Linux on the new batch of Intel mini PCs. Many are running Intel NUC mini PCs.

In the pure linux world you can utilize an ARM based mini PC like the Raspberry Pi.

Here my base is two.

1 - Intel iSeries with 16Gb of RAM using an mITX format motherboard DIY in my own minicase. I use this computer for Homeseer Pro. You do not need an iSeries PC to run Homeseer Pro. I run more than Homeseer on this computer

2 - RPi2, Pine64 , Xi5A mini cube PC for running Homeseer Zee Lite.

Google Amazon and you will see many mini pc's. Look for Intel CPUs with intel based chip sets. There really is no best PC for Homeseer as it will run on anything. Think about future expansion of your Homeseer automation relating to sizing your CPU / RAM.

Think also about your budget for automation. It is more than the computer. Your automation budget should include switches or whatever plugins, additional hard ware controllers et al. IE: 20 automated switches at $50 bucks a pop will put you at $1000. Also depends on technology you want to utilize.

Here I mix X10, UPB, Z-Wave and Zigbee technologies. Many folks on the forum utilize Z-Wave for all of the automation technology. It is up to you what you want to use and do with Homeseer.
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HS3 Pro & Lite Edition Beta 3.0.0.435

HS3 Wintel Touch | Ubuntu 16.04 64 bit | Oracle Windows Virtual Box ==> for Wintel only SAPI and HS3 plugins | Speech - Microsoft SAPI - Neospeech - Amazon Echo | Hardware | Haswell Intel iSeries 3 - 16Gb | Pine64 - 2Gb computers | Openpeak Intel Atom SoC tabletop touchscreens (15 HS tabletop tablets) | Touchscreens - Windows embedded POE connected |Light switches - X10,UPB, ZWave and Zigbee | Firewall - PFSense - 2 WAN plus 4 LAN interfaces | Network - Gb managed switches / POE WAP(s) | CCTV - Zoneminder IPHD cams - variety | Audio - Russound - AB8SS | Security - Leviton HAI Omni Pro 2 | Weather - Davis Vantage Vue - MeteoStick - WeeWx | 1-Wire - AAG, Midon and HB | OWFS - Mosquitto - Node Red - Python - RPi Stretch - OpenWRT
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  #3  
Old May 19th, 2017, 12:18 AM
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Bill Brower Bill Brower is offline
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Consider an i5 laptop. Quite reasonable in price and will run for hours during a power outage. This is what I bought and then just upgraded to an SSD (personal preference).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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  #4  
Old May 19th, 2017, 12:19 PM
cowinger cowinger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Brower View Post
Consider an i5 laptop. Quite reasonable in price and will run for hours during a power outage. This is what I bought and then just upgraded to an SSD (personal preference).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
+1 I have the exact same laptop and it is fantastic for HS3. Very fast. Battery will last about 6 hours I think. I only had to use it on battery for 3 hours during an outage but it still had plenty of battery left.
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  #5  
Old May 19th, 2017, 09:17 PM
Kerat Kerat is online now
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What PC/Mini PC to use to run HS Software

Personally, I run HS3 on an RPI 3. I am running HS3 for Linux standard (no limit on total number of plugins). There were a few problems I had to overcome with replacing ARM compiled executables but that was not too difficult. My configuration is relatively well suited for smaller deployments. It also reduces my overall power consumption to run home automation. Lastly, and RPI3 is dirt cheap for a 1.2 GHz quad core CPU and 1 GB OF RAM.

My HA network deployment is pretty small. I have some 253 total devices, 140 events, and 7 plugins. My HA network currently consists of Z-wave controlled lighting, dry contact, door, motion, HVAC control unit, and ceiling fans. I have 32 z-wave nodes, and am working on finishing out with 33 more z-wave controlled devices.
I am also managing and monitoring my network devices, Kodi HT applications. I currently use only about 50% of the resources on the RPI.

I would like to tie a security system, sprinkler control, weather station, whole home audio, and security video monitoring system into HS3.

I expect that I will need to move into a bigger system at some point. I will likely stand up a single self built miniPC platform like a multi-core Intel/AMD system or build an ESXi hypervisor VM host server and move all my server systems to VMs.
You can build out a mini ITX based dual core AMD PC with 8GB of RAM for around $220.

HS3 is pretty lite on system resource requirements by itself. The thing you need to account for is growth as your HA network and plugin use expands so does the consumption of server resources resources.

If your goal is to buy a PC instead of build, I would look into a gigabyte or Asus mini PC on an i5 Intel CPU or a 4 core or better series AMD. I would recommend 8GB RAM. Also, go with an SSD hard drive.


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  #6  
Old May 19th, 2017, 10:48 PM
butka butka is offline
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Add me to the list of Raspberry Pi3 users running HS3 standard. I just bought HS3 last week and migrated my Openhab setup. The Pi is barely being taxed.

For install, I actually installed the HS3-pi3 image for evaluation, then decided to go with HS3 standard due to the plugin limit on the Pi version of the software. The "upgrade" to HS3 standard was pretty easy and from reading other's posts on installing HS3 standard on a pi, installing the HS3-rpi3 image seems like the easier route. I was going to do a how-to writeup when I have time.
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  #7  
Old May 20th, 2017, 09:50 AM
davros davros is offline
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Where are you guys getting your data from re windows pc recommendations?

I5, 16GB of ram, SSD?


Seriously? This thing uses bugger all CPU and no memory to speak of and has almost no IO. It'll run on any piece of crap hardware you can buy today that will run win 10. Celeron with 4GB is fine... heck, I run a D510 atom board and it worked fine with 2Gb and a crappy old 2 1/2" hdd and rarely see over 15% cpu

In short, get the cheapest, smallest, low power, all in one win 10 pc you can find and use that.

Oh, kerat, my HA system is the one thing I would not virtualise...too many physical connections (USB, serial, audio) to go under esxi. I love esxi, have 3 esxi hosts and 15+VM's across them...but HS is staying stand alone.
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  #8  
Old May 20th, 2017, 10:31 AM
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sparkman sparkman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davros View Post
Where are you guys getting your data from re windows pc recommendations?

I5, 16GB of ram, SSD?


Seriously? This thing uses bugger all CPU and no memory to speak of and has almost no IO. It'll run on any piece of crap hardware you can buy today that will run win 10. Celeron with 4GB is fine... heck, I run a D510 atom board and it worked fine with 2Gb and a crappy old 2 1/2" hdd and rarely see over 15% cpu

In short, get the cheapest, smallest, low power, all in one win 10 pc you can find and use that.

Oh, kerat, my HA system is the one thing I would not virtualise...too many physical connections (USB, serial, audio) to go under esxi. I love esxi, have 3 esxi hosts and 15+VM's across them...but HS is staying stand alone.


It depends on how many plugins you are running and other factors. I used to run on something similar to a D510 and 2 GB with a regular hard drive, but now have an I7 with 8 GB and an SSD and HS3 runs much more reliably. I would see above 80% CPU on my old system regularly, but now rarely see over 5%. I do run a lot of plugins and I went with an I7 because I was thinking about running Blue Iris on the same system.


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HS3Pro 3.0.0.318 on Jetway JBC501F9Q-Q87-B i7 8GB 1874 Devices, 955 Events, 28 Plugins
Z-Wave 3.0.1.131 Z-Net 105 nodes:Leviton Vizia,Kwikset,FortrezZ Valve/Sensors,Everspring Sensors/Modules/Outlets,CT30 Stats,MIMOLites,Aeotec Smart Switches
RFXCom W800,RFXrec433,RFXtrx433|APCUPSD|Pushover|Squeezebox|weatherXML|HS Phone W2C|APCUPSD|UltraLog
UltraGCIR GC-100|UltraNetcam|UltraPioneer|Ultra1Wire|DSC PC1832|BLLED|BLTVGuide|ImperiHome|jon00 Utilities|MySensors

PHLocation|X10 CM11A IOLinc,etc
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  #9  
Old May 20th, 2017, 10:47 AM
waynehead99 waynehead99 is offline
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What PC/Mini PC to use to run HS Software

This is the downside of HA. Each person and house is different and requires different. I agree HS is low utilization on a computer itself, but it also depends on how big you plan to get. Plugins are the memory hogs in this arena. I have 20 plugins running roughly and that eats up a good chunk of memory. My setup also is script heavy now which has its pros and cons depending on what your goal is.

Do I need an i7 with 32 gigs of ram?? No and I doubt anyone does, strictly for HA unless the system is going to be multi purpose. But I will say I went from an older duo core with 4 gigs of ram to an 8 core AMD (last gen and because it was cheap) and doubled my memory to 8 gigs. I run SQL express as well capturing everything that happens in the house and it's also my Domain controller. The system hardly breaths hard ever.

I initially did virtualization and as stated above, the amount of physical connections was making it tough to maintain, but it was still doable. But I'm also the type that likes to stand something up and forget about it maintenance wise.

Personally when I went to the newer chip, I did notice an improvement in my bigger scripts finishing quicker, which did allow me to adjust some of my delays in my events down that I needed to wait for them to finish. Plus overall, my system does seem more reliable.

But I guess I gotta ask, does a multi core CPU really matter to HS (I suspect the answer is no, but I could be wrong).
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  #10  
Old May 20th, 2017, 07:50 PM
davros davros is offline
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Agree with a multi role server, esp. the likes of blue iris which is CPU hog (full disclosure: I run Milestone Xprotext in a VM for my house cams), but for most use cases the celerons are plenty powerful even for multi role.
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  #11  
Old May 20th, 2017, 07:56 PM
Kerat Kerat is online now
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What PC/Mini PC to use to run HS Software

Quote:
Originally Posted by davros View Post
Where are you guys getting your data from re windows pc recommendations?

I5, 16GB of ram, SSD?


Seriously? This thing uses bugger all CPU and no memory to speak of and has almost no IO. It'll run on any piece of crap hardware you can buy today that will run win 10. Celeron with 4GB is fine... heck, I run a D510 atom board and it worked fine with 2Gb and a crappy old 2 1/2" hdd and rarely see over 15% cpu

In short, get the cheapest, smallest, low power, all in one win 10 pc you can find and use that.

Oh, kerat, my HA system is the one thing I would not virtualise...too many physical connections (USB, serial, audio) to go under esxi. I love esxi, have 3 esxi hosts and 15+VM's across them...but HS is staying stand alone.


I can agree that HS3's requirements are very low. As stated before I run HS3 standard for Linux on a $35 Linux based RPI3. The system is pretty beefy (ARM 1.2 GHz quad core with 1 GB of RAM) for that price. HS3 runs like a champ, consumes some 90 MB of RAM. I could move up to an Asus TinkerBoard (ARM 1.8 GHz with 2 GB of RAM) for $60.

The trade off when going cheap is limited available resources as you expand plugins or tie in additional services. Examples:

1. Add a SQL DB on the system to capture all your log events, 2GB of RAM and that old 5900 RPM spinner drive is not going to be enough.

2. Stand up a blue iris NVR on the same system, the 2GB OF RAM and that old 5900 RPM spinner drive will likely not be enough.

3. Think about maintenance and security. Add A/V software, automated
Backups, or implement automated patch management, CPU and RAM on low end systems are going to hit above 75% utilization for an extended period of time during maintenance operations. You could try to schedule those maintenance routines outside of normal operating times but you still have to address them in some way. A quad core CPU, 120 GB SSD HDD, and 8GB of RAM is not a huge additional expense if you are already spending the money on a NUC, Zotac, or Asus mini PC or laptop.

I have heard the hosting HS3 on a VM is difficult, but I still think it would be interesting to do.


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  #12  
Old May 20th, 2017, 08:23 PM
davros davros is offline
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Yep, Linux runs on an oily rag...as opposed to bloated old M$.

1. Agree 4GB is a reasonable amount - Win 10 takes loads for itself now. The SQL impact is surprising. Do you have any links for this? I'd think a 5400-5900 (green) drive would have plenty of iops for HS (mostly small writes). Not like it's doing much.

2. 5900 is fine (even preferred) for DVR use as it's almost all large sequential writes. 7200-10k are heat and power hogs. Granted, recall can be slower but most people rarely recall or scrub through old video.

3. AV and backups etc. True, some these can also be hogs, and use as much as they can get, but again, I run AV and Acronis and a bunch of other crap at 3am.

Fwiw, I also transcode 3 IP cam video (sub)streams using VLC on this D510 and it barely breaks a sweat (20% until and a few 100 MB ram).

I guess my point is, and as requested by the OP, modern hardware (ie. any celeron you can get from the shop) is way powerful enough for HS. Sure, buy and i5 or i7 and 16GB if you want, but it's not needed.



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  #13  
Old May 23rd, 2017, 07:27 PM
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CeeTee CeeTee is offline
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Talking You Don't Need Much at All

Two years ago I set out to build my HS3 system and selected a Shuttle, Atom based XS36VL:

FORM FACTOR 1.1L slim form factor
PROCESSOR Intel Atom D2550 dual core processor
CHIPSET Intel® NM10 Express Chipset
MEMORY 2 x DDR3 SO-DIMM, supports up to 4GB DDR3 1066 MHz
VIDEO OUTPUT Intel GMA 3650 Graphic engine
AUDIO IDT92HD81
2.1 channel High Definition Audio
ETHERNET Realtek RTL8411
Supports 10/100/1000 Mb/Sec.
Built in 802.11b/g/n WLAN module
STORAGE INTERFACE Support 1 x 2.5" SATA HDD, 5400 / 7200RPM
Support 1 x SD Memory Card
FRONT PANEL (1) Power button
(1) Power Led
(1) SD Card reader
(1) USB 2.0 port
(2) RS232 ports
BACK PANEL (1) RJ45 LAN port
(1) D-sub port
(1) HDMI
(1) DVI-D
(4) USB 2.0 ports
(1) Line out port
(1) MIC in port
(1) Kensington lock
(1) DC in
DRIVE BAYS (1) 2.5" HDD / SSD bay
DIMENSIONS 200*160*36 mm

I stuck 4 gigs of ram and a 120 gig SSD and fired it up with Win 7-32.
I've got a DSC system linked to it as well as my older HCSII board hooked to it via the comm ports. I run Insteon and Z-Wave, have over 450 "devices", probably some 150 events, there are 14 plug ins, iTunes and Norton.

The processors run at a combined average of 4% and the whole system uses 40% of the 4 gig memory. I used to run Jon00's charting package but I rarely used it and it was a hog so I've stopped it.

Anyways this thing pops and the beauty of it all is that it consumes about 15 watts (but my UPS says 1% of its 780 watts). These things are meant to be screwed to the back of digital signage screens, so they're small, noiseless (no fan)...and best of all, many come with 2 comm ports which is a rare thing these days.

I see they've now replaced the atom processor with a Celeron and the cheapest box (XS36V5) goes for US$180 (TigerD)...just add memory and an SSD and you're good as gold.

Small is beautiful
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Chris

HS3 Pro 3.0.0.368/ Shuttle XS36VL Atom PC - Win 7 Pro 32 / HCSII / Insteon / Z-Wave & SmartStick+ / DSC 1832 - PC5108 - IT100
Plug-Ins: APCUPSD / BLDSC / BLiTunes / BlueIris / BLMarantz / BLShutdown / Device History / HCS2 / HSTouch / Insteon / Jon00 Network Monitor / Jon00 DB Charting / PHLocation / WeatherXML / Z-Wave
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  #14  
Old May 23rd, 2017, 07:49 PM
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Pete Pete is offline
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Yes here last version of HS2 built a few Atom D525 / 4 Gb machines. Worked great.

Concurrent with said builds also built a few PCs using BCM mITX motherboards. (commercial style).

I put one of the Atom D525 motherboards in one of two carpcs. It has done well over the years.

Used an AMD E350 with 8Gb for an 8 drive NAS using an LSi 8 port SATA card. Been doing fine over the years.

Fast forward to HS3. Built a few HS3 computers.

For HS3 Pro built two iSeries 16Gb Linux Ubuntu 16.04 64 bit machines.

One is running W7 64 bit (for a Homeseer user) and the other is running Ubuntu 16.04 for myself.

On the HS3 Lite (Zee2 software) started here with first one running on an RPi. Updated it to an RPi2 (with GPIO Z-Wave / PiFace RTC). Then moved ZeeLite to testing on a Pine64 2Gb machine running Ubuntu 16.04 64 bit and circles around the RPi3 and the Xi5A (dual AMD, 2Gb and SSD drive). I changed the old RPi2 to a Z-Wave slave in the attic and it does well.

Newest HSTouch computer is a PipoX7 dual core Atom (4 pseudo cores) with 2 Gb of RAM connected to a 17" multitouch openframe touchscreen running W10, Kodi, Homeseer Touch, Kinect plugin, Alexa Plugin, HDHome run streaming, et al. Fast and low power PC. Only issue with it is that it has a built in USB NIC which I can put to sleep but WOL doesn't work.

Favorite computer is the iSeries 16Gb machine running Ubuntu 16.04 64 bit and a Windows server VB for Microsoft SAPI.

Concurrent with said builds just built a Zoneminder CCTV server on a multicore / 32Gb 2 U Dell server. It is the fastest Zoneminder server I have built to date. Big, loud and uses much power though. It is in a rack in the basement of the two story home. Never seen or heard. That said it was purchased in an auction dirt cheap...~100 USD with a bunch of other servers and cisco switches (pallet of stuff).

Just built another one (Intel ISeries with 16Gb of RAM) for another Homeseer user. This one is running an 8 drive NAS, HSPro in Ubuntu, WeeWx, KODI, CCTV back end stuff, HS3 Pro, W7 64 bit Oracle VB...list goes on and on. It is doing well.

Future build plans are for a faster less power consuming iSeries with 32Gb of RAM running Linux and Wintel (VBs).

All said (above) HS3 runs today in Linux and Windows. In Linux HS3 runs with Intel or ARM based CPUs. Computers today are faster and can multitask just fine. It really depends on how much you want to do with HS3. HS3 while it is one program it isn't just one program.

Last edited by Pete; May 23rd, 2017 at 08:03 PM.
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  #15  
Old May 23rd, 2017, 07:50 PM
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Monk Monk is offline
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I just put together a system with an i5 6500(Quad Core)and 16GB ram. Windows 10 installed and slowly converting over from HS2 -> HS3.
Its a bit overkill but what the heck.
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  #16  
Old May 23rd, 2017, 07:59 PM
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cheeryfool cheeryfool is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
That said it was purchased in an auction dirt cheap...~100 USD with a bunch of other servers and cisco switches (pallet of stuff).


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  #17  
Old May 23rd, 2017, 08:08 PM
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Pete Pete is offline
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The pallet of computers wasn't me. I recommended a no on the purchase. He personally picked up the purchased pallet with his truck.

He is a newbee automator. (Security, CCTV, Automation, et al).

Friend convinced his wife that it was a good deal. Well and it was.

IE: Dell servers, Cisco Switches, Cisco servers, Cisco ASA's et al. He has sold much a la carte and it has paid for initial purchase. Only thing is that all of his servers / switches will be rack mounted in a big footprint in the basement.

Well they are still just on the floor in front of the rack in the basement and his wife never goes down to the basement.
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  #18  
Old May 23rd, 2017, 08:23 PM
davros davros is offline
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Yep, and old school server class gear will...
a) sound like an aircraft carrier
b) suck power like nothing he has seen
c) heat the place 'till it cooks.

Sell it on ebay and get some fit for purpose modern gear.
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  #19  
Old May 23rd, 2017, 08:44 PM
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Pete Pete is offline
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Yes here have 4 NAS boxes. 3 are modern and 1 is a 1 U server with dual power supplies.

I would get hand me downs from work and while it was a nice to have they didn't really fit in the home (even though they were in the basement).

The NAS was so loud that it's been off now for a couple of years. It would cost more to ship than what it is worth today.

Recently here updated my Leviton 42" panel with a tiny managed 24 port switch (no fans) and an 8 port POE switch. I had started on this endeavor years ago but small managed no fan Gb switches were not available a few years back. I like the switch so much that I purchased two more and these are on the server rack. (there is also a 24 port managed POE switch there).
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  #20  
Old May 23rd, 2017, 09:13 PM
Kerat Kerat is online now
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What PC/Mini PC to use to run HS Software

I have helped a few friends setup hand me down, written off enterprise equipment. It is cool, but I don't see myself ever needing that much horsepower. Generally speaking, I pickup RPI 3s, or cheapish equipment that is 1 generation old.

My wifi controller and HS3 systems are both hosted on RPI 3s. I have a HTPC system also hosted on an RPI 3. I am considering moving it to an Asus tinkerboard or pine64 (as Pete loves his). I am also considering building a home PBX to get a home phone running again.

My last PC build out was for my PFSense firewall . It was a 5th generation i5, 8 GB ram, SSD, and a dual NIC mini-PC. I picked it up on alibaba for $230. The system was way overpowered for just a firewall, but it was cheap. Additionally, I am actually really glad I did over power it, as I was really impressed with everything I could host in PFsense (Let's encrypt ACME SSL client, reverse proxy, DDNS, WAN monitor, IDS, IP region blocking, RADIUS, VPN).

My next build out will likely be to move my old netgear 4 bay readynas over to a freenas system.


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Last edited by Kerat; May 23rd, 2017 at 09:40 PM.
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