Philio-tech PAN06 reporing but not changing status when manually switched

[TeTTiweTTi]

Hi,

I'm using Philio-tech PAN06 in wall dual relay switch modules to control my lights.

http://www.philio-tech.com/products_insert_control.htm

I only use one of the outputs/device. They work as intended when controlled by a vera 3 controller of MiCasaVerde.

But with Homeseer3 and an Aeon Z-stick Gen 5 the following is happening:

lights are connected to NO1
Switch Binary 1 is renamed to "Office" in the screenshot attached.

SW1 turned ON in HS --> instantaneously icon SB1 ON, followed by icon SB3 ON --> lights ON (instantaneously with SB1) --> so OK
next
SW1 turned OFF in HS --> instantaneously icon SB1 OFF, followed by icon SB3 OFF--> lights OFF(instantaneously with SB1) --> so OK
next
lights turned ON manually using S1 input --> lights OFF --> icon SB3 OFF in HS, SB1 stays ON --> not OK
but
SB1 only gets updated to ON when polled
this I could be solved by automatic polling after a SB3 change, but it feels like a messy solution
even so...
when SB1 is turned ON in HS (SB1 ON and SB3 ON) and then the lights are turned OFF using S1 the status of SB3 changes to OFF, but NOT SB1, even after polling the device
If then the main device is polled (renamed "Office Parent") SB3 turns OFF again while the lights still stay ON (and SB1 still stays OFF as well). This is even more incomprehensible to me.

still following ?

I've also noticed there are 4 devices created for each module in Vera but only 3 controllable (and 2 non-controllable) devices in Homeseer.

the following post is related to something similar:
https://forums.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=179370
I've added associations to group 2 and 3 as well, but that did not really change anything.


Same for changing parameter 1.
parameter 1 - selected end point - 1 byte - 1: Relay1&Relay2, 2:Relay1, 3:Relay2

any one else using Philio swithes?

[TeTTiweTTi]

with these 2 events the status gets updated correctly.
But I hope there is a better solution than having to do this for each of the 10 devices....

[Black Cat]

Use the following Configuration setting. 31 Value 2. (Undocumented)

Make sure you have association groups 1,2 and 3 ON.

[TeTTiweTTi]

Use the following Configuration setting. 31 Value 2. (Undocumented)

Make sure you have association groups 1,2 and 3 ON.

Black Cat, thanks for the reply. I saw in one of your earlier post mentioning this for another device (was it for a PAN04?).
I did try this earlier, I had to mention this as well. I do get the 'ERROR' message when setting the parameter, which is to be expected.
But is does not change anything to the situation.

Could it be another parameter for the PAN06?


I had already made the associations before.

[Black Cat]

The ERROR message is OK. IT's just a HS thing.

Your Office Light (S1)? is the Master (all ON/OFF) which controls both child devices. Use the Child devices to control your lights, not the Office light.

I use these settings for Push Button switching, toggle switches may have different characteristics, so you might also have to play with Config Parameter 2, try setting this to either 1 or 2, 3 works with Push Button.

Failing this, do a Factory reset and try again or exclude from HS, include in Vera and check the Configs, it's possible that they haven't been set, if so then set the Configs in Vera, then exclude from that network and include in your HS network. The Config Parameters should remain.

Personally, I find this a PIA with HS as you can't poll any device and return all of the Config Parameters like you can with Vera which means it's difficult to pin point the problems with Config Parameters. (If someone knows of a way to do this, can they please let me know!)

[TeTTiweTTi]

Black Cat, thanks again for trying to help out.
I also only know how to read out the value of 1 parameter in HS.

I believe the Switch Binary 1 is indeed the Master.
using the child devices the following is happening

• in HS3 Switch Binary 2 is controlling the load ON/OFF. This looks logical since the load is connected to NO1
• But if I turn on the light using the switch, Switch Binary 3 is becoming ON in HS3. Even more strange is that next in HS3 I cannot use Switch Binary 3 to turn off the light . I need to use Switch Binary 2, although it never changed to the state ON. If I try using Switch Binary 3, it reverts to the previous state
• If I turn Switch Binary 2 ON in HS3, the state is indicated as ON (and the light is coming on as stated above.). But also Switch Binary 3 is changing the state to ON.

So it looks like Switch Binary 2 is controlling the load and Switch Binary 3 only is indicating the state.


I did try a factory reset of the device as you suggested (3x include button within 1.5s followed by 5s include button).
I also tried setting the parameters in Vera and then inserting it again in HS.

But the result is still the same. Vera did report back the value of parameter 31 correctly, see annex.

I also tried it with a push button (parameter 1 had to be changed to 2 (pulse) as to be expected in my case) but the working of switch binary 2 and 3 is still the same as described here above.


I have now reached out to Philio-tech. They already replied they do not know Homeseer (???), but will download the software and test it.

[TeTTiweTTi]

I also would like to mention changing the value of parameter 1 (1, 2 or 3) has no effect at all.


Also, Switch Binary 3 is more then just an indicator.
When the lights are off and I use SB3 I can hear a relay changing state. Probably NO2 load, did not measure it out yet.

But as mentioned, when the lights are ON, (SB2 ON) SB3 is not switching any relay...

[TeTTiweTTi]

"feedback" from Philio-tech

Devices can compatible in Vera. But in Homeseer I'm not sure.

Do you want to use our gateway? Can reduce your problems.

and

Hi Steve,

Let me repeat this with you.

I know use the dongle with Homeseer. But I do not have this gateway.

We're not support Z-WAVE 400 devices and update firmware.

If you want to use the devices, please buy new PAN06 and PAN08. It's Z-Wave 500.
And there have new configure can set and can solve your problems.

I've already sent our Z-wave 500 products to Homeseer to integrate with their gateway.

If there is any update I will let you know.
Thank you~

so, not really a help...

[Black Cat]

Well, the reply is helpful, depending on how you read it.

You hadn't mentioned that the devices were 400 series. That would explain why they don't function correctly with the 500 series chip/gateway/hub.

The instructions that I had previously posted were for 500 series. I can't help you with 400 or earlier, although I suspect you may need to use a early version dongle and firmware.

[TeTTiweTTi]

Black Cat, thanks for pointing that out to me.
no, I did not. I - clearly wrongly - assumed 500 dongles were backwards compatible with 400 serie devices.

what are my options now if I want to switch to homeseer?

- replacing all of my 9xPAN06 and 9xPAN08 to 500 series? that sounds expensive.
- switching to the philio gateway? no chance
- use a second 400 serie dongle on the pc? will that than not create 2 separate,less reliable networks?
- use a 400 serie dongle alone on my pc? but then I will not be able to use newer 500 serie devices.

[Black Cat]

18 Series 400 Z-wave devices! I have to ask, what did you use to control them prior to HS?

You have to make a decision on what to do with you Z-Wave system as opposed to any future Z-WavePlus system. I not fully conversant with HS, so I am unable to offer guidance within the HS environment.

What I do know from experience is that you can run many z-wave networks and in my particular case I have HS, Vera UI5, VeraUI7 (Z-WavePlus), Philio, Popp, Indigo and have tried a few other less known programs, all running concurrently for the testing of devices.

The 2 Vera systems that I have running, could be a solution to your dilemma as I had a large HA Network setup based on the 400 series before I started Importing and distributing Z-Wave Plus devices.

Possibly, like yourself, I had assumed that the new devices would be backward compatible (they are not) and spent many hours Including, Excluding & Configuring Philio devices on UI5, in everyattempt I wasn't able to get any devices working satisfactory.

The only solution was to find a "Z-Wave Plus" gateway.

Now, I am not sure if you can have multiple mixed controllers with HS, I can with Vera and could set The UI5 hub to be a slave to the UI7 Hub. I have no need for this....yet.... they both run independently as UI7 has to many problems associated with it.

Perhaps this could be done in HS? I'm certainly interested in the answer, but it probably needs to be asked in another thread as the forum users who know the answer would probably not pick up on this as it's buried in a Philio "help me"

Lastly, if you are after advanced HA, then the Philio Hub is not sufficiently powerful for your use, so I couldn't recommend it. It's good and inexpensive as a starter, but eventually most user will move onto something more powerful.

Good luck and let us know in which way you proceeded.

[brientim]

Z-wave plus is fully reverse compatible with earlier version, and in fact all gateways must provide that as part of the certification.

Reverse compatibility is normally not the issue but rather the implementations and encompassing all the way they different classes have been implemented and @Black Cat already pointed out undocumented variations

[Black Cat]

Problem is that no manufacturer is interested in supporting the 400 series devices now, so planned backward compatibility will follow the trial to extinction. The reality is that Pepper One really no longer exists, so it's every man for himself.

I don't have a solution to this problem, it isn't something that we have planned for in Australia and I don't see it raising it's head but it doesn't solve the problem the the OP has.

Tim, you have much greater experience with HS, is the OP able to run a 400 & 500 series dongle on his server with or without running seperate HS programs?

If he can, then his solution is to try to find a 400 series dongle and try it.

[brientim]

Hello Mick,

The simple answer is yes you can run multiple dongles but I don't know of any series 400 dongles that were released in AU other then one for the Stackbox as there was any AU available at that point.

However, that will not fix the underlying issues that the OP described as this is all front end UI not backend. The reserve compatibility is described by use of the classes and each generation expanded; however, the framework did not control how the classes were implemented by the OEM. Hence the deviation between manufactures.

The previous issues in the posts that affected the PAN04 also affected other brands including Aeotec and Fibaro and it was a matter of working out each specific variable parameters and group associations as described earlier in your posts.

What I would recommend in the first instances is raise a support ticket to request HST have a look at this as they would have better reach.

http://z-wave.sigmadesigns.com/wp-co...ion.pdf#page33

If you get bored and so desired, the link is to the z-wave plus certification and each device type will describe reserve compatibility and it is basic that it uses basic z-wave classes.

[Black Cat]

The OP is in Europe, so would need to find one for the appropriate frequency.