the lenght of the usb cable

[tt300zrcr]

Is there way to extend the cable without loss.

My electric comes in about 100ft away from the HS PC. Should i just use a TCP/Serial adapater like i do for the rain8

[mrhappy]

I think the transmitter itself can transmit 30metres which is what about 100feet or close on - so you might be just about in limits at the point of your HS PC and find it works. Extending a USB cable i've done with 5 metre active USB extenders (think there is a max limit of four?) so you could get closer with those, or you could get a serial cable and extend it with an IP box (mine is running into a TCP/Serial box but its for other reasons) and it should work fine.

[tt300zrcr]

thinking of just using the serial adapter to tcp those are cheap and have decent reliability.

i can order the envi with dedicated serial rather than usb. so ill do that.

[Pete]

I've purchased a couple of USB active extenders which work fine. I also utilize a DigiUSB anywhere and Lantronix which works fine via the network.

My Rain8Net is a serial device and I extend it about 75 feet with cat5e cable with serial ends on it; works just fine. (from the garage to the basement near the rest of the HA "stuff").

The Rain8Net is around 1 of 5-6 RS-232 devices extended over 50 feet with Cat5e to RS-232 connectors.

My first "experiment" in extending the HS RS-232 interfaces was in the older home over 10 years ago, having HS on the second floor and the X10 PIM adjacent to the fuse panel; which greatly extended the reach of the CM11 at the time.

RS-232 cable lengths

Maximum cable lengths

Cable length is one of the most discussed items in RS232 world. The standard has a clear answer, the maximum cable length is 50 feet, or the cable length equal to a capacitance of 2500 pF. The latter rule is often forgotten. This means that using a cable with low capacitance allows you to span longer distances without going beyond the limitations of the standard. If for example UTP CAT-5 cable is used with a typical capacitance of 17 pF/ft, the maximum allowed cable length is 147 feet.

The cable length mentioned in the standard allows maximum communication speed to occur. If speed is reduced by a factor 2 or 4, the maximum length increases dramatically. Texas Instruments has done some practical experiments years ago at different baud rates to test the maximum allowed cable lengths. Keep in mind, that the RS232 standard was originally developed for 20 kbps. By halving the maximum communication speed, the allowed cable length increases a factor ten!

http://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/info/RS-232_specs.html

[mrhappy]

Slight problem pete is the signal is at the speed of 57600 baud so I think the max cable distances on the serial side was not that far (around two metres IIRC) due to the speed. As it outputs XML also its susceptible to even the slightest interference (one character out and theres all your data down the pan) as I found out in my tearing-my-hair-out-stage of interfacing with it. I don't know if any RS232 line drivers would be another alternative (although just a quick google most seem to increase the distance by miles rather than metres, perhaps overkill)...the older units that used to be made were 2400 and 9600 baud which was a bit better for extending.

I might try it on a USB>IP box a bit later on out of interest, can't see any reason why it won't work - certainly works fine on a Serial>IP box that I have and has been running 24x7 without fault for the best part of a year now since I bought it.

Never a problem in the UK, I think the average house size is a little bit bigger than a postage stamp so 30 metres is probably the furthest they ever thought of.

[Pete]

Yes, I am currently not extending any device which has greater than 9600 baud com speed. I do have a few HS devices extended now. The runs are from one corner in the basement "server" area up two floors into the attic with Cat5E. Many years ago (1990's) used "black box" active serial extenders to extend serial printers. Kind of expensive though unless you buy these old boxes. Recently though extended serial RFID readers to controllers 1000's of feet versus RFID readers to network (commercial endeavor).

1 - W800 (2) (9600)
2 - cheaper RF (2) (9600)
3 - Rain8net (2) (9600)
4 - GPS (4800)

No PIMs greater than 20 feet or so. (Z-wave, UPB, CM11, Insteon PLM). My preferences is to utilize copper over wireless initially and finally wireless as a last ditch effort if I cannot get any wire to a device.

I did notice that the peers that I worked with in the UK lived up to 2-3 hours away via train from London in the country. I rented a two bedroom apartment in London for a time and it was in a building which had been "modernized" but would have been very difficult to wire (but could have been done).

The testing I did with Digi's USB anywhere enabled control via the network to the Digi USB hub to two Digi 8 port serial boxes fine except for the W2C box and a USB sound card. I've also tried the "software" only applications available for USB to network and prefer the HW solutions mentioned.

Adding the Lantronix USB to Network device enabled utilization of the W2C box; didn't test USB sound but it kind of worked with the Digi USB anywhere anyways.

I couldn't get the SA UPB PIM to work via the DigiUSB anywhere box and that was related to the drivers.

In FL more difficult in that the base of the home was masonry; so I had to "prewire" much during construction and now utilizing the attic (difficult though).

[tt300zrcr]

do you think i can use a serial to bluetooth adapter its supports 100m which is big enough for my range. as anyone ever used on. all i ever see is the serial to wifi adapters and serail to lan

[Michael McSharry]

If you want something to work then the IP/Serial such as the Global Cache iTach version sold in the HS store is proven technology. There are also lower cost surplus approaches. If you try to use a technology at its margin then you are asking for problems. If you want to extend USB directly then 5 16' active repeaters can get you 80' per spec. The IP/Serial is a much more elegant solution.

[mrhappy]

Funnily enough I was looking at the bluetooth-serial modules yesterday on eBay and was thinking of buying one to try out. The only problem I can see is the connection and establishing if its lost, back when I first used bluetooth (on an Ericsson T68 so what about 2002) the establishing of serial connections involved going into a number of menus and pressing a few buttons so it was not straightforward and probably could not be emulated with sendkeys or the like - i'm just thinking if the connection gets lost for any reason (but then again you may have this problem with a usb lead) the plugin would stop. Once connected I can't see a reason why it won't work (check the baud rate though just to be sure) as there is nothing special about the serial comms, its receive only and does not use any of the signal lines.

[Rupp]

Is there way to extend the cable without loss.

My electric comes in about 100ft away from the HS PC. Should i just use a TCP/Serial adapater like i do for the rain8

Did you try the receiver at your PC to see if it will get a signal?

[tt300zrcr]

i am gonna try the bluetooth method to see what happens i dont think it will work but its free from work

[Gogs]

Use active extension cables, but make sure the last one is non active.

[AutomatingIT]

i am gonna try the bluetooth method to see what happens i dont think it will work but its free from work

Did you try installing the device to see if it would work? I thought mine would be out of range for my garage panel but it works just fine at about 120 feet.

[Pete]

For whatever reason I've noted sometimes a delay when loading the USB drivers with the USB extenders such that the application loads before the drivers then sometimes would error out.

[tt300zrcr]

bluetooth like i suspected works but then disconnects and it goes on and off so its not as stable as probably using glocbal cache serial to wifi convertor