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Migrating to HomeSeer (From Another System) Are you migrating from another system to HomeSeer? Use this forum to connect with others who've done the same thing!

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  #1  
Old December 24th, 2016, 05:57 AM
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Using Vera as secondary controller

I migrated from Vera to HS3 recently and am really happy with the switch. One thing that I miss about my old Vera 3 was its range (I had added an external antenna). I have a couple nodes that I can't reach with my ZNET and have left these nodes included with the Vera. I was hoping to basically use the Vera as a secondary controller to monitor these distant nodes/sensors (and pass their statuses to HS3). Is it possible to do this? In effect, can I turn my Vera into another pseudo-ZNET?

I tried to add a new Zwave Interface in the HS3 Zwave plugin. I first went into Vera's UI5 Advanaced Zwave Settings and clicked Controller Shift. Then I went into HS3 Zwave plugin, Add New Interface, selected Ethernet interface and entered my Vera's IP and a wide range of ports (80,22,37,123,232,3480,49451). But this didn't work - HS3 could never communicate with Vera.

Then I tried the Vera Controller Shift again. This time, I used my existing ZNET and chose Action "Receive Network from Another Controller." This imported all of the nodes from Vera (and I was able to monitor their statuses). But it also wiped out all of the nodes I had previously migrated into HS3! Fortunately, I had a backup.

So it seems like I'm close. Any suggestions?
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  #2  
Old December 24th, 2016, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fcol View Post
I migrated from Vera to HS3 recently and am really happy with the switch. One thing that I miss about my old Vera 3 was its range (I had added an external antenna). I have a couple nodes that I can't reach with my ZNET and have left these nodes included with the Vera. I was hoping to basically use the Vera as a secondary controller to monitor these distant nodes/sensors (and pass their statuses to HS3). Is it possible to do this? In effect, can I turn my Vera into another pseudo-ZNET?

I tried to add a new Zwave Interface in the HS3 Zwave plugin. I first went into Vera's UI5 Advanaced Zwave Settings and clicked Controller Shift. Then I went into HS3 Zwave plugin, Add New Interface, selected Ethernet interface and entered my Vera's IP and a wide range of ports (80,22,37,123,232,3480,49451). But this didn't work - HS3 could never communicate with Vera.

Then I tried the Vera Controller Shift again. This time, I used my existing ZNET and chose Action "Receive Network from Another Controller." This imported all of the nodes from Vera (and I was able to monitor their statuses). But it also wiped out all of the nodes I had previously migrated into HS3! Fortunately, I had a backup.

So it seems like I'm close. Any suggestions?
If you cannot reach a Zwave node, you should consider adding more always on devices in between. The network is a Mesh network, so the intermediate nodes will act as repeaters.
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  #3  
Old December 24th, 2016, 11:47 AM
brientim brientim is offline
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It is the reverse required if you just want to add Vera as a secondary controller .

I am doing this by memory but on your HS.

Send Network Information to another Controller.

On your Vera, Setup -> Z-Wave Settings -> Advanced -> click Go next to 'Copy Z-Wave network from a master controller'
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  #4  
Old December 24th, 2016, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by brientim View Post
It is the reverse required if you just want to add Vera as a secondary controller .

I am doing this by memory but on your HS.

Send Network Information to another Controller.

On your Vera, Setup -> Z-Wave Settings -> Advanced -> click Go next to 'Copy Z-Wave network from a master controller'
Thanks (and great memory!). But all my nodes disappeared from Vera and the only thing added to HS was a Sigma Static Controller. I tried reloading everything but I couldn't find the two nodes on either Vera or HS.

Maybe I have nomenclature screwed up (use of term "secondary controller"?). The Controller Shift from Vera seems like the choice I want. When I tried it before, Vera-Setup-Zwave Settings-Options showed that Vera's Role had changed to slave. And the fact that I was able to monitor those Vera nodes inside the HS interface was exactly what I wanted (minus the part of losing access to my other 30 HS nodes).

To clarify, I want Vera to communicate to these problematic nodes and pass their states to HS. In some ways, I don't even want Vera to know HS exists since it would probably find some way to corrupt HS So choosing "Send Network Information to another Controller" from HS doesn't make sense to me. I don't know why Vera would need to know the network info from HS...

For what it's worth, I tried Vera Controller Shift and HS "Add/Include a Node" but nothing happened.

At worst, I guess I could try and have Vera send something over http to HS whenever there's a status change (this would stretch my non-programming background). But being able to use this old Vera as a second ZNET-like device would be much better (for other reasons such as the Vera is able to directly communicate with one of my door locks whereas I need to use a repeater to get that same lock to talk to my ZNET).


Quote:
Originally Posted by wpiman View Post
If you cannot reach a Zwave node, you should consider adding more always on devices in between. The network is a Mesh network, so the intermediate nodes will act as repeaters.
True. But in this specific case, both trouble nodes are outdoors with no available power in between. One is uphill of my house and the other is downhill. I will try repeaters again (outdoor Jasco outlet switches) if I can't get this to work. But mounting the modified Vera high in my house worked much better... Or if I could modify my ZNET to add a better antenna, then that would would probably be my preferred option (but that's for another thread and not easy from my understanding).
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  #5  
Old December 24th, 2016, 03:36 PM
brientim brientim is offline
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The controller shift is the reserve and either way you will loose the current devices on one until they are re-added to the network.

Add as a secondary controller in effect, incorporates the new controller, in the use case your Vera, into the HS network. So this results in it inherenting the nodes from the HS and having the same HouseID. Therefore, when you add a node to Vera, it is being incorporated into HS3. Vera should not be able to corrupt HS3 as the only communication is within z-wave.

I have never thought about trying to add Vera to HS3 as a native and bridging the two in the same way Znet.

Your worse case, is achievable and that is the route taken between Vera and the OpenHAB project.

The quick and rude solutions that presents itself is to use them natively and use ImperiHome to bridge for presentstion/ usability until you could resolve/work an alternative workable option.
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  #6  
Old December 24th, 2016, 04:06 PM
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I think I follow. Thanks so much for taking the time to explain. I think I'll continue to operate Vera and HS independently and perhaps use Imperihome to bridge. That's very workable in my particular use case.
Happy Holidays!
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  #7  
Old February 28th, 2017, 11:19 AM
NickTheGreat NickTheGreat is offline
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Does anyone know anything else about this? I have a Vera 3 that I'm retiring, but I wonder if I could still use it with my HS3 system? I have a few odd things that don't work with HS3 that do/did with the Vera.

I have not tried anything yet, but I assume it would be doable?
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  #8  
Old February 28th, 2017, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post
Does anyone know anything else about this? I have a Vera 3 that I'm retiring, but I wonder if I could still use it with my HS3 system? I have a few odd things that don't work with HS3 that do/did with the Vera.

I have not tried anything yet, but I assume it would be doable?

Just out of curiosity, what is it that the Vera can do that HS3 can't?
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  #9  
Old February 28th, 2017, 10:58 PM
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PLEG for one...If there was only a HS equivalent.
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  #10  
Old February 28th, 2017, 11:09 PM
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PLEG for one...If there was only a HS equivalent.

I'm not trying to be a wanker here, but... Are you serious? I have yet to find anything that I could do with PLEG that I can't do with the HS3 event engine in a fraction of the time and in a user friendly way.
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  #11  
Old February 28th, 2017, 11:24 PM
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Absolutely serious.

HS has no sequence equivalent.
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  #12  
Old March 1st, 2017, 12:57 AM
brientim brientim is offline
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There is a very legitimate reason to use Vera other than the apps/plugins albeit cost or available integrated system and that is the z-wave capabilities.

1. Vera as a backbone z-wave device is extremely capable and provide very robust back up and recovery processes.

2. Z-wave back-up... and recovery.

I mentioned that twice because I have had to do a complete rebuild twice.
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  #13  
Old March 1st, 2017, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by S-F View Post
I'm not trying to be a wanker here, but... Are you serious? I have yet to find anything that I could do with PLEG that I can't do with the HS3 event engine in a fraction of the time and in a user friendly way.
I don't get to hear other people use the 'w' word anywhere near enough these days So much more expressive than most others
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  #14  
Old March 1st, 2017, 02:35 PM
NickTheGreat NickTheGreat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S-F View Post
Just out of curiosity, what is it that the Vera can do that HS3 can't?
What started it was the Hue plugin. I've gone back and forth with Wim and we can't get it to work on my system.

But I got to thinking that the Vera is just sitting there, and incidentally the only thing still on it is my Hues.

I should just try it sometime, as I'm not really out anything if it doesn't work.
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  #15  
Old March 1st, 2017, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brientim View Post
There is a very legitimate reason to use Vera other than the apps/plugins albeit cost or available integrated system and that is the z-wave capabilities.

1. Vera as a backbone z-wave device is extremely capable and provide very robust back up and recovery processes.

2. Z-wave back-up... and recovery.

I mentioned that twice because I have had to do a complete rebuild twice.
Guessing you missed the Z-Wave network backup/restore feature we've had in our software since 2006?
If you're using a supported controller (Z-NET, SmartStick+ or UZB stick), Z-Wave network backup in HS3 only takes about 10 seconds to complete. The restore process takes a bit longer but not by much. You can access this on the Z-Wave controller actions menu of the Z-Wave plug-in and you can see it in action in this video:

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  #16  
Old March 1st, 2017, 02:59 PM
sirmeili sirmeili is offline
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Originally Posted by Black Cat View Post
Absolutely serious.

HS has no sequence equivalent.
I went and re-familiarized myself with sequences on RTSs website. I think having "sequences" could be possible in HS, but my base gut thoughts would be to split up "sequences" into multiple trigger/condition types. While I think it would be possible to allow a user to enter a string like Richard has and then parse it, I think it would lend itself to typos.

Note that these can all be done with timers and counters which are built into HS. Sequences are possible, but I agree, that they are harder to accomplish with the tools HS gives you (not saying that is good or bad). It's also important to remember that PLEG only deals with true/falses. So sequences are based on when presetup triggers are true or false. You can accomplish this using Virtual Devices or global variables if you wanted to.

So, these are kind of the conditions/sequences that I remember PLEG supporting (remind me if I"m missing any, it's been 2 years):

trigger1; NOW > 30:00
Trigger1 has been true for more than 30 minutes.
You can do this in HS now. It's built in
Code:
IF device A has been set to Y for at least 30 minutes
trigger1; trigger2 > 30
trigger 1 occurred more than 30 seconds ago.
You can do this in HS now with existing triggers/conditions.
Code:
IF device A is changed and set to Y
AND IF device B has been Z for at least 30 seconds.
trigger1; trigger 2 > 30 < 5:00
trigger1 occurred more than 30 seconds before trigger2, but not more than 5 minutes from trigger2.
This one is harder in Homeseer. It requires you to set up multiple events to start timers, but it is possible.
event 1 (start timer when device A is set to a value)
Code:
IF device A is set to Y
THEN restart timer1
event 2 (stop time if device a changes)
Code:
IF device A is change and is not Y
THEN stop timer
event 3 (main event)
Code:
IF device B is set to Z
AND IF device A has been set to Y for more than 30 seconds
AND IF timer 1 is less than 5 Minutes
THEN...
now you could potentially do this in a plugin as 1 condition/trigger to make it easier on the user, but I'm not sure how many people would use it:
Code:
IF Device X is set to A after Device Y is set to B between time1 and time2
THEN...
To be fair, I started this post thinking sequences could be a good idea for a plugin, but as I wrote this post, I no longer believe that. I think you could easily do it with the tools HS give you with very similar results. It will take a bit more setup time (to do timers), but that's not horrible. I already do this for my front door lock: If it is unlocked 2 or more times in 10 seconds, turn off the autolock. This uses both timers and counters for the effect and was based on the sequence I had in my Vera.

Oh yeah, there is also the counter sequence thing in PLEG:

Device A is Y @ 3 < 30
If device A is Y 3 times in less than 30 seconds then...
I think you could do this with HS as well, but I'm about to go into a meeting and can't write it up. It is possible though. Have an event to increment a counter as long as a timer is less than a certain tima. An event to start and stop the timer and a main event which is triggered when your conditions are met. Definitely more work in HS, but same result.
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  #17  
Old March 1st, 2017, 04:27 PM
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Sequences are much more that timers or counters.

By using time stamps, one can determine if a series of events have occurred in sequence.

Such as:

Event1:Event2:Event3:Eventn

It is a very powerful tool to use in Automation. One such is determining direction of travel within a space (entering or exiting in a certain direction. such as a door or travel along a passage area)
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  #18  
Old March 1st, 2017, 05:15 PM
sirmeili sirmeili is offline
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Originally Posted by Black Cat View Post
Sequences are much more that timers or counters.

By using time stamps, one can determine if a series of events have occurred in sequence.

Such as:

Event1:Event2:Event3:Eventn

It is a very powerful tool to use in Automation. One such is determining direction of travel within a space (entering or exiting in a certain direction. such as a door or travel along a passage area)
Ok, I can see how trying to do sequences with more than 2 devices could get complicated in HS, but it should still be possible. Like I said though, this will get exponentially harder the more devices you add (As you will need to track them all with counters, timers, and perhaps virtual devices). PLEG does this all for you in the background.

I think this might be a good addition either to an existing plugin or as a new one (though it would be pretty single purposed). I may give it a shot as it seems like a pretty good challenge

(sorry all for derailing the thread, I'll stop talking about this now )

Edit: I also think this would be possible using scripting as well (since you hinted at only using time stamps and you have access to them via scripting).
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  #19  
Old March 2nd, 2017, 11:35 PM
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Getting back to the thread.

I've just tried to add HS to Vera...why everyone will ask, HS is stable and Vera has PLEG and is unstable. I'm betting on a marriage of both to run my ultimate system. But when I try a Controller shift I get an added node (82) which I can;t find in HS and a failed update in Vera.

Any suggestions?
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  #20  
Old March 2nd, 2017, 11:55 PM
brientim brientim is offline
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Locks?
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