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  #1  
Old May 25th, 2016, 10:01 AM
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Uncle Michael Uncle Michael is offline
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Communication puzzle

I have a switch that the plug-in appears to have no trouble controlling. When I change it locally, the plug-in sees the change immediately as well.

However, when I try to modify the programming of the switch with UpStart, it reports that it cannot establish communication with the switch.

Looking for recommendations for troubleshooting.
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Old May 26th, 2016, 08:34 PM
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Solved - sort of

In the end the simplest thing worked. I used an extension cord to plug the PIM into a different circuit. Upstart was completely happy there. Excellent signal strength and low noise.

I assume there was a signal problem on the original circuit, but I still have no idea why the plug-in didn't experience any problem. Also, the comm test didn't show a noise issue, just that it couldn't locate the switch.
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Old May 27th, 2016, 03:47 PM
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Upstart use the PIM in pulse mode whereas the plug-in use it in Message mode, maybe that's the reason for the difference you saw.
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Old May 29th, 2016, 04:54 PM
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Thanks for the insight. I have no idea what the difference is between the two modes, but it does provide a rationale. Is there any reason to think one is more reliable than the other, and if so, is UpStart using a less reliable protocol than it could be?
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Old May 29th, 2016, 05:24 PM
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@Mike,

Are you utilizing a UPB Repeater or UPB Coupler or nothing at this time for you UPB network?

Here a few years ago my signal levels went down the tubes. (thinking it was external). No noise at all, just low signals. I tried at first using a phase coupler which didn't work for me; then went to a repeater which solved my issues.

I keep 2 UPB serial devices connected to Quatechs for signal checking. That and keep one floating for laptop portable UPB testing. The OPII and software UPB PIMs all sit on their own circuit breakers right next to the panel. One Quatech connected one sits there and another one is on the second floor.

The UPB API goes in to a long 63 page dissertation relating to the differences and use of pulse versus messaging mode. Gets a bit graphic (engineering wise UPB rabbit hole).

UPB technology description
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Old May 29th, 2016, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
Are you utilizing a UPB Repeater or UPB Coupler or nothing at this time for you UPB network?
I have a split phase repeater. I'm getting very good signal and low noise on the entire network. That's why having UpStart report that it could not find a switch was so puzzling, especially since the switch works perfectly with the plug-in.

I assume the discrepancy is an indicator of a subtle problem, and I intend to keep investigating in hopes of finding the cause, but at least in the meantime everything is working. (And I know how to help UpStart find its way, too, if I need to. )
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Old May 29th, 2016, 08:53 PM
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Here have discombobulated a few links on some UPB switches so I would just reset the switch and reprogram it.
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  #8  
Old May 30th, 2016, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
Here have discombobulated a few links on some UPB switches so I would just reset the switch and reprogram it.
That's just what I was about when I discovered the problem!

I noticed that the switch was responding to a link that I did not intend it to, so I went in to remove the link. Difficult to do if UpStart can't find the switch.
So then I put the switch in setup mode, figuring I'd just start over. UpStart still couldn't find the switch!
Exited UpStart, worrying that I had now really messed up the switch.
Went back to HS and ran some tests. Switch works just as it should (except for that pesky link).

Posted here. Puzzled over what could be the problem. Slept on it. Puzzled some more.

Decided to try the PIM on another circuit. No problems.
Removed the unwanted link from the switch. Returned the PIM to the original outlet. Reconnected to HS. Everything works fine. Switch ignores the unwanted link.

Still don't understand, but I can live with it for now.
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  #9  
Old May 30th, 2016, 11:06 AM
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I would purchase a spare UPB PIM and connect it to a laptop. Use it as a floater.

Leave the HS UPB PIM connected as is.

Then cold reset and reprogram the problematic switch using the floater UPB set up. Configure it with same ID as previous.

Save your UPB configuration and import it to HS UPB plugin. (put it on usb stick)

Then go back to HS / Upstart and scan the UPB switch in question. If you do not see it then something is amiss.

I have never to date bricked a UPB switch.

Last edited by Pete; May 30th, 2016 at 11:48 AM.
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  #10  
Old May 30th, 2016, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
Then cold reset and reprogram the problematic switch using the floater UPB set up. Configure it with same ID as previous.
Pete,
I don't think the problem is the switch. I think the problem is on the circuit the PIM is plugged into. If I move the PIM, everything works normally.
Quote:
I have never to date bricked a UPB switch.
I did once. But it wasn't a programming error. The dry wall installer nicked the insulation on the wires in the box and I didn't notice - until I stuffed them back in behind the switch and turned the power back on. Big pop. Toasted switch.
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