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UPB plugin by Spud (3P) Spud UPB plugin discussions.

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  #1  
Old October 9th, 2016, 11:17 AM
guy999 guy999 is offline
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multiple pims?

can i use multiple pims with this plugin. I have found that I have better connections in different parts of the house to different switches?
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Old October 9th, 2016, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guy999 View Post
can i use multiple pims with this plugin. I have found that I have better connections in different parts of the house to different switches?


I think it only works with one PIM. You should only need one. Sounds like you need a phase coupler/repeater. I run UPB for EVERY light in my 4K sf house, and have no issues, but I did need to install one of these for each breaker box (I have 3) to bridge the phases.

Here's some links that may help:

Wire in: http://www.simply-automated.com/prod...se_coupler.php

Plug in for dryer: http://www.simply-automated.com/prod...se_coupler.php




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  #3  
Old October 10th, 2016, 10:14 AM
guy999 guy999 is offline
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Originally Posted by Derek View Post
I think it only works with one PIM. You should only need one. Sounds like you need a phase coupler/repeater. I run UPB for EVERY light in my 4K sf house, and have no issues, but I did need to install one of these for each breaker box (I have 3) to bridge the phases.

Here's some links that may help:

Wire in: http://www.simply-automated.com/prod...se_coupler.php

Plug in for dryer: http://www.simply-automated.com/prod...se_coupler.php




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so i have an 8000 square foot house, and i have a repeater and a phase coupler. currently i have two panels and one sub panel, but still I have problems hitting some of the switches. I have 80 of them, and still I have some that aren't done yet.

I find that the pulseworx switches work a bit better but at this point I can buy 3 homeseer switches for one pulseworx switch.
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Old October 11th, 2016, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guy999 View Post
so i have an 8000 square foot house, and i have a repeater and a phase coupler. currently i have two panels and one sub panel, but still I have problems hitting some of the switches. I have 80 of them, and still I have some that aren't done yet.

I find that the pulseworx switches work a bit better but at this point I can buy 3 homeseer switches for one pulseworx switch.


Is there a rhyme or reason to the switches you can't control? For example, are they all in one of the three breaker boxes? All on one side of a breaker box?

From experience I have 400 amp service coming in to two panels and a sub from one. I had to put a phase coupler/repeater in both main panels.

If you need two pims, perhaps try http://www.pcslighting.com/pulseworx...erfaces/pim-ip as the secondary, since the upbspud plugin only serves one pim, this sounds like it would work for you once added to your upstart config.

Hope that helps!


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  #5  
Old October 11th, 2016, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guy999 View Post
I find that the pulseworx switches work a bit better but at this point I can buy 3 homeseer switches for one pulseworx switch.
I'm confused. I wasn't aware that HS sold UPB switches. Is this meant only as a price comparison? (I would definitely not be surprised if the UPB plug-in was not communicating reliably with HS switches. )

+1 on installing a PCS coupler/repeater in each main panel as the next thing to try.
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  #6  
Old October 11th, 2016, 04:43 PM
guy999 guy999 is offline
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Originally Posted by Uncle Michael View Post
I'm confused. I wasn't aware that HS sold UPB switches. Is this meant only as a price comparison? (I would definitely not be surprised if the UPB plug-in was not communicating reliably with HS switches. )

+1 on installing a PCS coupler/repeater in each main panel as the next thing to try.


is it possible to couplet and prevent transmission of the signal like put one on each panel and the subpanel and on the dryer as well.
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  #7  
Old October 11th, 2016, 05:27 PM
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The current version of the plugin does not handle multiple PIM, but I could make an easy change so that you can create multiple instances of the plugin. Each instance would be totally independent from the others, each would use its own PIM, and have its own network with its own devices. So, you would have to create multiple networks in Upstart and for each one export an .upe file.
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  #8  
Old October 11th, 2016, 07:20 PM
guy999 guy999 is offline
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awesome spud, well i'm first going to try and do that other phase coupling thing but if that fails. I will ask.. thank you so much....
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  #9  
Old October 11th, 2016, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by guy999 View Post
is it possible to couplet and prevent transmission of the signal like put one on each panel and the subpanel and on the dryer as well.
I have no experience with more than one, but my recommendation would be to proceed with care. With two main panels, it seems possible that the circuits on each are isolated from those on the other. I assume you do get some communication between them, but the signal strength is likely weak. Putting a coupler/repeater on each main panel has the potential to boost the signal back to acceptable levels on all circuits. My main concern would be that they could create a feedback loop if you overdo it. If it works, though, it will be a lot easier to manage than two independent instances of the plug-in.
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  #10  
Old October 11th, 2016, 08:40 PM
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One other thought: It might be instructive to pose this problem to PCS and/or SA to see what they recommend. It's hard to imagine that the problem has not been encountered before.
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  #11  
Old October 11th, 2016, 09:18 PM
guy999 guy999 is offline
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One other thought: It might be instructive to pose this problem to PCS and/or SA to see what they recommend. It's hard to imagine that the problem has not been encountered before.

i'll give SA a call they have been pretty helpful in the past. I don't actually have much trouble communicating to the PCS switches, just the SA switches, but the vast majority of switches that i have are SA
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  #12  
Old October 12th, 2016, 11:16 AM
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i'll give SA a call they have been pretty helpful in the past. I don't actually have much trouble communicating to the PCS switches, just the SA switches, but the vast majority of switches that i have are SA
Interesting observation. Have you ever tried replacing a troublesome SA switch with a PCS switch?
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  #13  
Old October 12th, 2016, 04:45 PM
guy999 guy999 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Michael View Post
Interesting observation. Have you ever tried replacing a troublesome SA switch with a PCS switch?
i have done it once or twice and the PCS switches work better or they work in places where SA doesn't.
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  #14  
Old October 13th, 2016, 05:34 AM
Overst Overst is offline
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Multiple instances of plugin

The ability to run multiple instances of the plugin would be very useful.
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  #15  
Old October 14th, 2016, 08:34 AM
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in version 3.0.0.36 available here, you can now run multiple instances of the plug-in. Go to to the PLUG-INS > Manage page and click the '+' green button on UPBSpud line to create a new instance, then you will get access to a new config page for this instance.
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  #16  
Old October 14th, 2016, 07:18 PM
Overst Overst is offline
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Thanks

Spud thank you very much for being so responsive.
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  #17  
Old October 15th, 2016, 06:52 AM
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Thank you Spud for the additional options to your plugin.

Here I have used one HAI UPB repeater, SA phase coupler and PCS phase coupler on one 200 AMP panel over the years. The oldest UPB switches are HAI and PCS. Newest are all SA.

My HAI repeater is between two phases in one panel. It is suggested to use the phase repeater between panels (if you have more than one) and the phase coupler between phases in panels.

My two phase couplers (PCS and SA) are connected to two autonomous breakers and are currently in off mode.

I do utilize multiple PIMs here but related to the use of HS and my OmniPro 2. All of the controller PIMs are plugged in on separate circuits (with their own breakers) adjacent to the fuse panel with long serial cables.

I use the outside of the fuse panel area UPB PIMs mostly to just check on the UPB device footprint, noise and signal strength. I use a floater UPB PIM to spot check signals.

Today utilize HS as a back up / addendum to the OmniPro 2 UPB network. All of the PIMs see all of the UPB switches such there there is a common file (upstart and export upe) for all of the UPB PIMs.

I do similar today for Z-Wave with one OmniPro VRCOP that talks to the same HS3 Z-Wave network.

More tinkering these days I moved my Zee-2 / RPi2 to the attic and made it just a slave Z-Wave/X10/UPB 1-wire hub for a new Zee-2 box. Only thing here was that I plugged in the CM11A / HAI UPB PIM to an attic outlet in the attic which is different than my norm for this sort of stuff. Both the CM11A and HAI UPB PIM sees all of the x10 (which is just Christmas these days) and UPB switches just fine. This methodology would work just fine using Spud's second instance of a UPB plugin putting a UPB slave on one side of the house connected to one fuse panel and having it talk to the mothership on the other side of the house.

Historically I had a UPB signal sucking thing going on and the UPB repeater fixed my issues.

In the last two weeks noticed a up tick in noise and I am pretty sure that it is coming from one noisy circuit with a new transformer.

Over the years here have added more circuits to get granular with the electrical but not really adding more amperage loads to the fuse panel. IE: broke down family room a bit such that one circuit was just for the lighting, one for the media stuff and one for the other outlets. I also utilize X10 today here. The X10 dual phase PIM is also on a separate circuit / breaker entrance to the panel. IE: all automation PIMs today are on their own circuit breakers with the only the PIMs (no other loads).

I have though left the panel covers off for periods of time here to tinker with the placements of the PIM breakers. (square d / seimens breakers / alternative phases on each side of the panel type of thing). Then documenting the circuits with a map or picture drawn and stuck to the inside of the fuse panel door.

Recently have added a box o UPB SA switches to my collection here and been testing each one; one by one; using same circuit outlet and have noticed some differences in signal strengths and noise with some of the switches and wondering about this. I stage the switch this way then install it.

A user over on CT always mentions that the HAI/PCS phase repeater works only with the HAI/PCS switches and the PCS/SA phase repeater seems to only work with the PCS/SA switches. IE: mentions that the HAI/PCS switches are different than the SA switches relating to the working use of an SA phase coupler with SA switches and a repeater with the HAI/PCS switches.

Here started a while ago with HAI / PCS then SA switches and currently see all of them just fine with just the UPB repeater on. Trying a bit to shrink the UPB wall footprint have gone to using dual load multiple paddle UPB switches.

Over the last couple of weeks here while checking signals / noise see my signals all over the place with lows in the 30's and highs over 100 and some noisy areas up to about 6 or so.

This had me experimenting where I put the PIMs/breakers in to the panels shifting them a bit.

Note too here all of my electrical is in conduit and all of my switches are in metal boxes (no plastic anywhere in one home - romex-plastic in another home) such that I only use UPB switches for lighting dimming and not dimming loads. Still tinkering here with Zigbee (new) and Z-Wave. Experimented to UPB and Z-Wave (and Insteon) for my Christmas lighting and switched back to X10 using a dual phased TW-523 emulator (Jeff's X10 stuff). (did put electrical in outside perferal berms / mailbox and did get fine coverage with UPB, X10, Z-Wave and Zigbee). Not much in to wireless automation (except for RFID stuff) have everything wired to panel (hard switches via outputs and inputs wired to OP2 panel). IE: used buried wired sensors under driveway plus wired sets of PIRs. I only have a couple of water sensors wired to the panel today / water on off switch is wired. These trigger CO alarm notifications should a mishap occur (along with wired to panel smokes and stuff as secondaries to primary GC installed 120VAC/battery smokes). Homeseer backs up the CO stuff. Dual ISP here with failover to secondary, same for phone to CO such that I get notifications via CO and HS at the same time via text or emails plus the CCTV stuff (all wired POE these days).

Just wondering if you had exhausted the shifting around of the PIMs / circuits / phase couplers / phase repeaters in your experimenting for best or just signal footprints to all of your UPB switches.
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Last edited by Pete; October 15th, 2016 at 07:37 PM.
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