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    "low cost" scaleable whole house audio and VR?

    I'm trying to find the simplest way to distribute sound to various areas of the house and this is my goal:

    - can be scaled (can add another speaker or speaker/mic combo)
    - can hear HS speaker events (either TTS or audio file) played to specific speaker(s)
    - can be used as whole house audio (like sonos), quality doesn't need to be supurb or extremely powerful
    - wireless communication
    - can control music from a phone (we're a pure Android house) if desired
    - can still operate VR without internet connection (is this even possible?)

    I am not sure what the best path for this would be as there seems to be only two competitors in this field?

    Google Chromecast Audio ($35, no VR only Audio)
    Google Home ($130, VR and Audio)

    Amazon Dot ($50, like Google Chromecast but with VR)
    Amazon Echo ($140, VR and Audio)

    For example I'd like to play music through the whole house to all the speakers. Have VR ability, at least to key areas like the bedroom and kitchen. Have the ability to play music or speak HS events to specific or all speakers test based on events triggered. I am looking at:

    Audio Only
    Bathroom x2

    VR + Audio
    Bedrooms x2
    Loft x1
    Kitchen x1

    Or is there another solution that I am missing? Also what specific plugins would I be looking at with HS to have either of these (or another solution) work?

    #2
    If you find one of these you would be very popular and have found the holy grail! I don't think there is one, chromecast has no real HS support, google home I don't know what the support looks like in terms of HS. I don't know what the music capabilities of the echo/dot actually are as to whether you can setup link groups like you can with Sonos and I don't believe there is any HS support for music.

    I paid the price for my Sonos system (and I know I paid less than most) but it is hard to beat and figured it would pay in the long run, no wires, scalable, support is always going to be there etc.

    Comment


      #3
      Define "Low Cost". When looking at a whole house system, all depends on what you want, and how much you want to integrate with. When it comes to Audio and Video, Cost is in most cases tied to quality. Yep you can stand up some pretty cheap wireless systems, but the quality will never be there.

      I am going down a similar path. but going wired since I am building a new house. Cost is almost 7k. Not cheap, but at the end of the day I know I will be happy.

      Comment


        #4
        I'm fully sonos and have to say it's good.
        Low cost, I think it is if you go with play 1's


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

        Comment


          #5
          ^^Agreed. Quality is a subjecive term. You could just buy a bunch of echo dots. That would certainly be the cheapest route. I bought the 6 pack and I was actually surprised by the audio quality. Don't get me wrong it is nowhere near as good as a Sonos but it was not cellphone speaker quality either. It is basically like a good clock radio. Could I get by with one in a small room, yes. Will it fill my great room with sound, no way. What I am really waiting for is the echo skill to control my Sonos speakers with VR. Sonos has already said that they plan to deliver an Alexa skill in early CY17.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by mrhappy View Post
            If you find one of these you would be very popular and have found the holy grail! I don't think there is one, chromecast has no real HS support, google home I don't know what the support looks like in terms of HS. I don't know what the music capabilities of the echo/dot actually are as to whether you can setup link groups like you can with Sonos and I don't believe there is any HS support for music.

            I paid the price for my Sonos system (and I know I paid less than most) but it is hard to beat and figured it would pay in the long run, no wires, scalable, support is always going to be there etc.
            I'm using Plex for most of my media in the house, however for HS I'd only want it to play a song or a sound byte when an event is triggered. The Sonos Play 1 is $250 and I'd like to get in each zone for $150ish.

            Originally posted by nufun View Post
            Define "Low Cost". When looking at a whole house system, all depends on what you want, and how much you want to integrate with. When it comes to Audio and Video, Cost is in most cases tied to quality. Yep you can stand up some pretty cheap wireless systems, but the quality will never be there.

            I am going down a similar path. but going wired since I am building a new house. Cost is almost 7k. Not cheap, but at the end of the day I know I will be happy.
            Low cost would be $150 for a zone is kind of what I'm shooting for. I could pay more, but then might end up with less zones or slower to roll out... I have a hard time going the wired route as I'm in a log house and it was built 30 years ago. lol.

            Originally posted by gd1210 View Post
            I'm fully sonos and have to say it's good.
            Low cost, I think it is if you go with play 1's


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
            Sonos Play 1 is $250, but I wonder if a Google Chromecast Audio with a powered bookshelf could compete to the same level and it'll for sure be lower cost. I've heard a lot of good things about Chromecast Audio, but then I guess one could go with the Amazon Dot and get VR and a powered bookshelf speaker and come out ahead in terms of cost and be of similar sound quality?

            Originally posted by wsume99 View Post
            ^^Agreed. Quality is a subjecive term. You could just buy a bunch of echo dots. That would certainly be the cheapest route. I bought the 6 pack and I was actually surprised by the audio quality. Don't get me wrong it is nowhere near as good as a Sonos but it was not cellphone speaker quality either. It is basically like a good clock radio. Could I get by with one in a small room, yes. Will it fill my great room with sound, no way. What I am really waiting for is the echo skill to control my Sonos speakers with VR. Sonos has already said that they plan to deliver an Alexa skill in early CY17.
            I'm thinking Amazon Dots with a powered bookshelf speaker might be ideal? $50 for the Dot, a used bookshelf speaker (tons on my local Kijiji) and then a small amp to power it? But if sound quality is not a big concern then $50 for a node is cheap! How integrated can the Amazon Dot be with HS though? Can you send specific TTS or music to it?

            Comment


              #7
              Take a look at the SqueezeBox LMS server and players as well. Logitech discontinued the hardware a few years ago, but all of the software was released as open source and is free. You can still find the players on eBay and other sources but you can also build your own for cheap. Here are some examples:

              https://sites.google.com/site/picoreplayer/home
              http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/SqueezePlug
              http://tiseostudios.com/squeezepi-part-1/

              There are also players that run on Windows, Android, linux, etc. so you could use any existing hardware you have as well, and there are many apps available that control the players. There's also great HS3 plugin for it.

              Cheers
              Al
              HS 4.2.8.0: 2134 Devices 1252 Events
              Z-Wave 3.0.10.0: 133 Nodes on one Z-Net

              Comment


                #8
                Here went to using a Russound (12 zones) and the old AB8SS (8 zones). Control is via my OmniPro 2 panel, Russound keypads and Homeseer. I also utilize Homeseer touch tabletop tablets with SAPI running in Wintel, SB/KODI running in Linux. The HS3 sound isn't synced that well when I run the speaker clients on the tablets. It works great with the Russound. It wasn't done all all once but rather in bits and pieces one room at a time.

                Many folks mix Sonos and Russound and a separate TTS/VR system. I still use stand alone speakers for my AVR setups preferring them over the in wall stuff.

                I have set up the bathrooms as separate zones and do utilizing the MB audio every morning.

                Started many years ago here with running 16/4 & 16/2 speaker wires for in wall speakers and catXX for in wall controls. Each pair of speakers has one associated cat5 cable. The wiring cost was the most price reasonable piece of this endeavor.

                I do also have the Amazon Echo and Kinect set up and testing these.

                Cost is relative.
                Last edited by Pete; November 7, 2016, 08:33 PM.
                - Pete

                Auto mator
                Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
                Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
                HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

                HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
                HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

                X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

                Comment


                  #9
                  I've build my own system that ticks every box on your list so i would say "Yes, it's possible"

                  You can have it too but you need some DIY skills to set this up.
                  On this forum there are several post about this system called ZMC so look for that. It's available for HS2 (ZMC v3) and HS3 (ZMV v4)
                  You can also have a look here http://zoelen.net/ZMC.htm

                  Please take your time to read it ALL because whole house audio + VR is like walking a tightrope. Everything must be in balance otherwise just forget about VR

                  Ps, As VR tool i would suggest to use voxcommando. It intergrates flawlessly with everything and you can controle HS with it without a hitch
                  - Bram

                  Send from my Commodore VIC-20

                  Ashai_Rey____________________________________________________________ ________________
                  HS3 Pro 3.0.0.534
                  PIugins: ZMC audio | ZMC VR | ZMC IR | ZMC NDS | RFXcom | AZ scripts | Jon00 Scripts | BLBackup | FritzBox | Z-Wave | mcsMQTT | AK Ikea

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Dot+powered speakers are easy and tick some of your boxes, but need internet connection and subscription for the music service. You can do VR without internet, powered by VR in HS3 on windows PC, but IMO the Amazon VR is better and still plenty fast. Very speaker independent, works for 3 yr old kids as good as adults. I don't think they can be used for zoned announcements from HS though. For that I use a 70V speaker system with relays driven by Elk alarm panel. That's all wired though.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by sparkman View Post
                      Take a look at the SqueezeBox LMS server and players as well. Logitech discontinued the hardware a few years ago, but all of the software was released as open source and is free. You can still find the players on eBay and other sources but you can also build your own for cheap. Here are some examples:

                      https://sites.google.com/site/picoreplayer/home
                      http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/SqueezePlug
                      http://tiseostudios.com/squeezepi-part-1/

                      There are also players that run on Windows, Android, linux, etc. so you could use any existing hardware you have as well, and there are many apps available that control the players. There's also great HS3 plugin for it.

                      Cheers
                      Al
                      Squeezebox is one I have seen and definitely have missed. It'd just be for distributed audio though right? No VR? So it'd be similar in regards to Google Chromecast Audio? Except there is no plugin for HS for the CCA yet, right?

                      Originally posted by Pete View Post
                      Here went to using a Russound (12 zones) and the old AB8SS (8 zones). Control is via my OmniPro 2 panel, Russound keypads and Homeseer. I also utilize Homeseer touch tabletop tablets with SAPI running in Wintel, SB/KODI running in Linux. The HS3 sound isn't synced that well when I run the speaker clients on the tablets. It works great with the Russound. It wasn't done all all once but rather in bits and pieces one room at a time.

                      Many folks mix Sonos and Russound and a separate TTS/VR system. I still use stand alone speakers for my AVR setups preferring them over the in wall stuff.

                      I have set up the bathrooms as separate zones and do utilizing the MB audio every morning.

                      Started many years ago here with running 16/4 & 16/2 speaker wires for in wall speakers and catXX for in wall controls. Each pair of speakers has one associated cat5 cable. The wiring cost was the most price reasonable piece of this endeavor.

                      I do also have the Amazon Echo and Kinect set up and testing these.

                      Cost is relative.
                      I'm trying to get away for hard wired solutions, but Russsound was another I had looked at and was leaning towards the ZMC setup about 6 months ago. How do you like the Echo?

                      Originally posted by AshaiRey View Post
                      I've build my own system that ticks every box on your list so i would say "Yes, it's possible"

                      You can have it too but you need some DIY skills to set this up.
                      On this forum there are several post about this system called ZMC so look for that. It's available for HS2 (ZMC v3) and HS3 (ZMV v4)
                      You can also have a look here http://zoelen.net/ZMC.htm

                      Please take your time to read it ALL because whole house audio + VR is like walking a tightrope. Everything must be in balance otherwise just forget about VR

                      Ps, As VR tool i would suggest to use voxcommando. It intergrates flawlessly with everything and you can controle HS with it without a hitch
                      I did pick up a XAP800 for $0.20 with $19 shipping about 6 months ago. lol. The only PITA is the wiring and what type of microphones to use. I figured an Amazon/Google VR would have a better microphone array and can relay that wirelessly to HS would be easier? Also for cost, I'd guess it'd be hard to find a microphone array that would be cheaper than a Amazon Dot?

                      Originally posted by jhearty View Post
                      Dot+powered speakers are easy and tick some of your boxes, but need internet connection and subscription for the music service. You can do VR without internet, powered by VR in HS3 on windows PC, but IMO the Amazon VR is better and still plenty fast. Very speaker independent, works for 3 yr old kids as good as adults. I don't think they can be used for zoned announcements from HS though. For that I use a 70V speaker system with relays driven by Elk alarm panel. That's all wired though.
                      Ya I have a huge media library and don't plan on paying for any music subscriptions. So having Plex play through the speakers would be ideal as I use it to send video to all the TV's in the house.

                      It seems the gating factor is that Plex works with Google Chromecast Audio (and I assume Google Home), but doesn't really have HS support. However Amazon Dot/Echo works with HS, sort of? Can't send audio to specific nodes, and it doesn't work with Plex.
                      Attached Files

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                        #12
                        I also think the echo dot is an excellent device for adding music to any room. I have one in my workshop connected to an old set of powered computer speakers. It sounds great, takes up minimal space and is extremely cost effective. I also have a whole house audio system that uses another echo dot as the music source. The whole house system is really old school but it still works well. Originally, I used iTunes and Winamp to play my music library from my computer. However, after years of messing with MP3 players, I bought a Spotify subscription. I immediately discovered that this approach was vastly easier to manage and well worth the cost. IMHO the sound quality is also better (from my whole house system).

                        I am also an Apple advocate. I have lots of apple products. In my home theater I use an AppleTV for audio streaming via an optical audio cable. The quality is superb! And being able to control everything from my iPhone and iPad is really important to me.

                        As others have said, a single approach is unlikely to meet all your needs. I suggest you experiment with different devices to see if they meet your needs.

                        Steve Q


                        Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
                        HomeSeer Version: HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.368, Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 - Home, Number of Devices: 373, Number of Events: 666, Enabled Plug-Ins
                        2.0.83.0: BLRF, 2.0.10.0: BLUSBUIRT, 3.0.0.75: HSTouch Server, 3.0.0.58: mcsXap, 3.0.0.11: NetCAM, 3.0.0.36: X10, 3.0.1.25: Z-Wave,Alexa,HomeKit

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Homeseer offers the opportunity to get creative with what is available today.

                          Here playing with a Windows 10 mini PC / 15' multitouch screen / HS Kinect / Amazon Alexa plugin which let's you gesture / do VR and concurrently run HSTouch for an all in one solution for TTS, VR and zoned audio. Wish that a mini Kinect device was made though.
                          - Pete

                          Auto mator
                          Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
                          Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
                          HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

                          HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
                          HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

                          X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Conrad_Turbo View Post
                            However Amazon Dot/Echo works with HS, sort of? Can't send audio to specific nodes, and it doesn't work with Plex.
                            You can send HS TTS to specific nodes. See this thread on this forum starting at post 5.

                            http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=184965

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Steve Q View Post
                              I also think the echo dot is an excellent device for adding music to any room. I have one in my workshop connected to an old set of powered computer speakers. It sounds great, takes up minimal space and is extremely cost effective. I also have a whole house audio system that uses another echo dot as the music source. The whole house system is really old school but it still works well. Originally, I used iTunes and Winamp to play my music library from my computer. However, after years of messing with MP3 players, I bought a Spotify subscription. I immediately discovered that this approach was vastly easier to manage and well worth the cost. IMHO the sound quality is also better (from my whole house system).

                              I am also an Apple advocate. I have lots of apple products. In my home theater I use an AppleTV for audio streaming via an optical audio cable. The quality is superb! And being able to control everything from my iPhone and iPad is really important to me.

                              As others have said, a single approach is unlikely to meet all your needs. I suggest you experiment with different devices to see if they meet your needs.

                              Steve Q


                              Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
                              lol I have zero Apple devices so I cannot relate in that regard. I'd like to control audio with Plex through my phone or PC, and send music to specific zones if possible. If you could have a tablet or phone that had HSTouch and had the voice monitoring on all the time, then have the headphone jack connected to a line in on a speaker... Then you'd have something that could send specific audio to and also input back to HS either by voice or touch. It's just that HSTouch on a phone won't have the best omnidirectional microphone and isn't active all the time. I wish this is something that could be enabled for devices that are constantly powered.

                              Originally posted by Pete View Post
                              Homeseer offers the opportunity to get creative with what is available today.

                              Here playing with a Windows 10 mini PC / 15' multitouch screen / HS Kinect / Amazon Alexa plugin which let's you gesture / do VR and concurrently run HSTouch for an all in one solution for TTS, VR and zoned audio. Wish that a mini Kinect device was made though.
                              HSTouch on a tablet would be the best way to go, especially if HSTouch was constantly listening for an attention phrase like Homeseer Speaker on a PC. And that way I won't have to say "Ok Google" or "Ok Alexa", it'd be what I want it to be. Is this even possible? But then the cost of multiple phones/tablets and the lack of a good microphone might not be the bst solution.

                              Originally posted by jhearty View Post
                              You can send HS TTS to specific nodes. See this thread on this forum starting at post 5.

                              http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=184965
                              So it would link a phone/tablet running HSTouch to a specific Echo via bluetooth. I don't know how the connection would work, but if you had two devices could you tell which device to send it to? I'm assuming not due to the pairing?

                              AshaiRey, if you were to run an amplifier with the ZMC solution, what would you propose? Or just any 12 channel amp would work?

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