Need help UPB newb

[Mikhael]

[Jayhawk]

Hi Mikhael...

I may be over-answering your question, but had written this for another use...

Basically, you need one UPB dimmer (in-wall or plug-in module) for each light circuit you wish to control, and one keypad at each location from which you want to control any of the dimmers remotely. This gets a little more complicated for the Simply Automated units which can be a combination of dimmer and keypad... if there is more than one paddle, think of the other paddles as keypad buttons). It is recommended to have a neutral wire for dimmers, but some will switch the load without neutral but the dimmer's LED won't function. The keypads require a neutral.

Each dimmer can listen and respond to 16 "links" and each keypad button can send out one link. In total, your home can have over 244 links (more if you have more than one UPB "network") So, if you want to have a "cooking" scene, you would name one of the links "cooking", assign the "cooking" link to, say, keypad button "A", and assign the "cooking" link to any one of the 16 links for each of the kitchen (or other) dimmers/modules that you want to come on (or go off) when keypad button "A" is pressed. You can also assign the "cooking" link to other keypad buttons in other rooms if you want to be able to activate that scene from other locations.

When you assign the link to a dimmer/module, you program that dimmer/module to know what dim level it is to go to, and the ramp-rate at which it is to go to that level.... so each dimmer in the scene can go to different levels at different rates. And, you can program the dimmer to behave as a dimmer or as a non-dimming switch (e.g. for an appliance or florescent lighting)... so some devices that respond to the link can go to a dim level, while others switch on or off... so you could have a radio in the kitchen that responds to the same link.

When you assign the link to a keypad button, you program the button to be the type of "button" you want for the scene. I could be programmed to be strictly a scene ON button, or strictly scene OFF, or a "toggle" (scene on for one push, and scene off for next push), or a "Super Toggle" (when hold down dims up or down), etc.

All the above functions (and more) are required by the UPB spec to be included in the UPB dimmers and keypads (regardless of manufacturer) and do not require a controller (e.g. HomeSeer). You use UPStart to program the dimmers/keypads, or you can program them "manually". Manual programming (or reprogramming) requires putting a keypad button into learn mode (push it multiple times until blinks) and then go around to each dimmer/module to be in the scene and just set it to the on/off/dim level desired, then take the keypad button out of learn mode.

The large number of functions supported by UPB, and the huge number of resulting control combinations comprise both UPB's strength and complexity. HAI has provided a simplified subset of UPB functions in their "HLC" implentation that reduces the complexity but also reduces the setup options (HAI dimmers and keypads, however, still retain all UPB functions if programmed with UPStart instead of with the HAI Omni Controller).

One area of UPB complexity that UPB itself cannot manage well is keypad LED management. In many UPB implementations, it is not possible to keep the keypad LEDs in sync with the dimmer states. HomeSeer programming can provide the solution to this deficiency (HAI also manages the LEDs accurately, but only by severely limiting the way in which the keypads are assigned to the dimmers).

[Mikhael]

Alright this seems to answer my questions. But it also spawns a couple more. Given that I live in an Apt and cannot place a keypad and switch at these locations I would have to find the ones that do both. I dont know how to tell that given I couldnt figure out the whole keypad and switch thing. So I need to either be shown which keypads double as swithces or figure it out all by my lonesome. My "links" ? or scenes ? that I am looking to make are:
Bedroom: (from one switch/keypad) turn on/off bedroom (overhead has a fan), bathroom, and front room lights. also have an "all off" button (making that 4 buttons total? and one switch built into this keypad I think if my understanding from your post is correct.
Bathroom: Just have a regular UPB switch.
Kitchen: (again one switch/keypad) overhead lights (has a fan), under the counter lights, and over the sink light. and an all off for the kitchen. (so again 4 buttons, one switch)
Front room: This one only needs to control on off for the front room and an "all off" for the whole apt. so two buttons, and one switch.

That makes a total of
2 switches with 4 buttons/rockers (bedroom and kitchen)
2 switches with 1 button/rocker (bathroom and over the sink light)
1 switch with 2 buttons/rockers (front room)
1 lamp module (under cabinet lights in kitchen)

I hope I am understanding you and by explaining better what I am looking for you can further answer my questions as to my needs.
Thank you

[pete@malibubeach.com]

Just another twist to complicate your decision making. you may not need as many 'buttons' as you speculate. UPB switches and buttons can be programmed to do different things depending on whether you tap them once or twice. the 'norm' is for single tap to cause the light to fade to on and double tap to go immediately on. But, as an example, in each of my bedrooms, I programmed the bottom rocker double tap to turn off all lights in that bedroom and its adjoining bathroom and closet; and the double tap upper rocker to turn on selected lights in the bedroom and bathroom. And in other sections of the house I program the double tap bottom rocker to turn off everything in that section of the house.

One thing I found helpful was to turn on UPstart and experiment with it (keeping it disconnected from the PIM). You can select differenct devices and see the the things UPstart lets you program into that device. In my experience, it does an excellent job of only exposing capabilities that are actually available and implemented on the device type that you select.

Hope this helps.

Pete

[Mikhael]

Um thats great, but for the WAF I think I will need to have a different button per function. and I am assuming that if I want I would make the single tap be immediate on? cause I would rather have it that way as i use non dimable compact flourecents. But Yeah This is all great food for thought. Now I just need to find the switches/keypads (in a single gang unit) to do as I stated above. Thanks for all the imput so far.

[tenholde]

I use these:

http://www.simply-automated.com/docu...-40_050814.pdf

Each switch controls a single wired load, and can (via switchplate replacement) transmit up to 3 other link commands to activate other UPB devices.

After reading, let me know if you have any questions.

Ed

[pete@malibubeach.com]

and I am assuming that if I want I would make the single tap be immediate on? cause I would rather have it that way as i use non dimable compact flourecents.

Once you program the swtich to be non-dimmable (as you must for compact flourescents), then single tap becomes immediate on. (and in fact becomes the same as double tap, unless ou change one of them).
Pete

[pete@malibubeach.com]

That makes a total of
2 switches with 4 buttons/rockers (bedroom and kitchen)
2 switches with 1 button/rocker (bathroom and over the sink light)
1 switch with 2 buttons/rockers (front room)
1 lamp module (under cabinet lights in kitchen)

It sounds like your total is correct. One caveat---the "keypads" are NOT what you want as they do not control a load. You need switches --- these have various faceplate options some of which have buttons.

I will use the Simply Automated part numbers (though they all have pretty much the same stuff built under license from PCS with pretty similar part numbers):
US1130: this is a switch that can have either a single rocker faceplate or a double rocker faceplate. It would fit your front room needs (with a ZS12 double rocker faceplate) and you rbathroom and over sink needs (with the standard single rocker)

US240: this is a switch that can have a facepolate with up to eight buttons or four rockers (if you think about it, each rocker is the same as two buttons). It will control one load and then the other three rockers (or six buttons) can send UPB link commands to control other devices. this would fit your bedroom and kitchen needs with a ZS24 faceplate (four rockers) or a ZS28 (8 buttons).

Then you program them so that there is a separate link for each device to be controlled remotely (there is no way (unless they have changed UPstart) to send an individual device command from one of the extra rockers on a switch). So you define links for each of bathroom, front room, over sink and under counter. Another link for all bedrooom lights and one for all kitchen and finally one for all lights.

All switches are programmed to locally control the load. Additionally:
Bathroom: no transmit links; receive bathroom and all lights
over sink: no transmit links; receive over sink, kitchen, and all lights
lamp module: receive under counter, kitchen and all lights
front room: transmit (2nd rocker): all lights; receive: front room, all lights
kitchen: receive: all lights; transmit (rocker 2): overr sink; transmit (rocker 3): under counter; transmit (rocker4) kitchen
bedroom: receive: all; transmit (2nd rocker) bathroom; (3rd rocker): front room; (4th rocker): all lights

this may not be exact, but it's pretty close to what you decsribed. A couple things you may experiments with---You may want to have some lights respond to the all lights deactivate but not to the all lights activate (that is, the on action might turn on only some of the lights); or you may even disable the on action on that rocker. Instead of an entire rocker, you might also chose to have a double tap off on, for example, the front room sewitch be an all off (then ou wouldn't even need the two-rocker face plate. I think once you get it installed you'll find lots of things to change. I know I spent a lot of time trying to map it all out before I started, and I've changed it a zillion time (mine is a lot more complicated with with 70 or 80 switches and keypads so a little preplanning was essential). But starting with six switches, you can reprogram the entire system in five or ten minutes. The only real decision you must make up front is whether you want the 1130 switches or 240 switches---the prices difference isn't much: 1130 is $55 (including single rocker faceplate)and the 240 is $63 plus a faceplate which range from $3 for a single rocker to $20 for an 8 button.

Hope this helps.
Pete

[pete@malibubeach.com]

Try loading this into UPstart---I'm sure I missed something (it is the five minute version), but take a look at the settings on each of the devices and you'll get the idea. (Obviously I didn't actually program switches and try it, but it's pretty close). I think I built it with a pretty old UPstart (on this computer) so you should be able to read it with any version you may have.

Pete

[Mikhael]

Ok what is the difference between a "universal transciever base" (US240) and a "standard switch" (US1130W) is it just the abount of buttons it can have?

[pete@malibubeach.com]

The basic difference does relate to buttons (8 versus 4 --- or 4 rockers versus 2 rockers). They both provide local control of a single load. They both support one or two remote switches (USR30, I thinnk, is the part number). Just the US240 has 4 extra buttons. i think there are a couple other minor differences -- one I remember is there are different color choices for the LED on the US240. By the way, if it matters in your installation, they are essentially exactly the same size when it comes time to install them into a box.

Pete

[Mikhael]

Are you able to use the faceplates with the buttons instead of rockers on the switches? or are those only usable on the controlers.
http://www.hnausa.com/searchresult.aspx?Keywords=ZS

ZS240 is the one I was looking at but they dont do much to describe them

[pete@malibubeach.com]

According to the catalog I use (Worthington distribution, which seems to be the cheapest for this stuff), the ZS24O is a "Quad 'Oval' faceplate for use with the US240 base". All the faceplates can be used on the US240 (which is a switch and does control a load). It is only the US1130 that has limitations as to which faceplates can be used.

The US1130 can ONLY use the standard single toggle face plate or the ZS12 (double full height rocker).

Pete

[Mikhael]

does worthington distribution have a website? if not how can I get a copy of their catelog?

[pete@malibubeach.com]

//worthingtondistribution.com

Pete