www.homeseer.com    
 

Go Back   HomeSeer Message Board > Lighting & Primary Technology Plug-ins > Lighting & Primary Technology Discussion > HomeSeer Z-Wave Plug-in

HomeSeer Z-Wave Plug-in Discussions relating to the Z-Wave plug-in

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old April 18th, 2017, 12:43 PM
Conrad_Turbo Conrad_Turbo is offline
Seer Deluxe
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 265
WS15Z-1 glitching when being polled?

I had a "bad" node like this in the past and I just eventually replaced it. However I am just sceptical that this is a software z-wave issue as it seems to randomly affect nodes and when the node is on it will flutter on and off when it seems to be polled or when traffic passes through the node. I have no way of verifying this (to my knowledge) but has anyone else had this issue? I'd speculate a hardware failure wouldn't cause a light to flutter off and on but instead go dead or not respond at all. It still accepts z-wave control, but when it's on it has an undesired Halloween effect. Any ideas?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old May 10th, 2017, 04:34 PM
Conrad_Turbo Conrad_Turbo is offline
Seer Deluxe
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 265
An update. It just got worse and worse and got to the point of the relay clicking on and off probably 200 times a minute...this was going to be a fire hazard. I immediately removed the switch, and since it's a "dud" at this point (it's out of warranty) I thought I'd take it apart and see what made it tick. I have had 2-3 others fail similar to this and they went back on warranty after fighting tooth and nail with Linear. They didn't want to honour their warranty due to the retailer not carrying their product anymore.

I de-soldered and disconnected the low voltage board from the load switching/PS board and powered the low voltage board with 3.3v with a power supply. I could control the low voltage board output with the push button switches as well as add and remove it from my z-wave network. While as before it was not responsive to anything, either through z-wave or through the push buttons.

I am not 100% sure it's the 3.3v regulator (LT1121cz-3.3) as the operating voltage was nearly the same...so I'm going to take a scope to see if the 15v being supplied to it by U1 is failing or a component with it is failing.

U2
https://www.digikey.ca/product-detai...-PBF-ND/890240

If I can repair this unit I'm sure that's what caused another unit of mine to fail as well, also outside of warranty...

Check out this gross solder flux mess by Linear though...these devices are indoors and are 1.5 years old.
Attached Images
   
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old May 10th, 2017, 04:45 PM
rprade's Avatar
rprade rprade is offline
OverSeer
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad_Turbo View Post
An update. It just got worse and worse and got to the point of the relay clicking on and off probably 200 times a minute...this was going to be a fire hazard. I immediately removed the switch, and since it's a "dud" at this point (it's out of warranty) I thought I'd take it apart and see what made it tick. I have had 2-3 others fail similar to this and they went back on warranty after fighting tooth and nail with Linear. They didn't want to honour their warranty due to the retailer not carrying their product anymore.

I de-soldered and disconnected the low voltage board from the load switching/PS board and powered the low voltage board with 3.3v with a power supply. I could control the low voltage board output with the push button switches as well as add and remove it from my z-wave network. While as before it was not responsive to anything, either through z-wave or through the push buttons.

I am not 100% sure it's the 3.3v regulator (LT1121cz-3.3) as the operating voltage was nearly the same...so I'm going to take a scope to see if the 15v being supplied to it by U1 is failing or a component with it is failing.

U2
https://www.digikey.ca/product-detai...-PBF-ND/890240

If I can repair this unit I'm sure that's what caused another unit of mine to fail as well, also outside of warranty...

Check out this gross solder flux mess by Linear though...these devices are indoors and are 1.5 years old.
I would strongly suspect it is one of the electrolytics. An ESR meter is the best way to test them. They will sometimes bulge on top. Most power supply problems are leaky capacitors. The mess you see isn't necessarily flux. A lot of manufacturers started using organic (citrus based) in place of volitile solvents to remove the flux and they can leave residue.
__________________
Randy Prade
Aurora, CO
Prades.net

"Do or do not, there is no try"
-Yoda

PHLocation - Pushover - EasyTrigger - UltraECM3 - Ultra1Wire3 - Arduino
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old May 10th, 2017, 06:21 PM
Conrad_Turbo Conrad_Turbo is offline
Seer Deluxe
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by rprade View Post
I would strongly suspect it is one of the electrolytics. An ESR meter is the best way to test them. They will sometimes bulge on top. Most power supply problems are leaky capacitors. The mess you see isn't necessarily flux. A lot of manufacturers started using organic (citrus based) in place of volitile solvents to remove the flux and they can leave residue.
I appreciate the input! I am mechanical...so I only dabble with electronics, but I am surrounded by electrical engineers all day.

I believe I have a multi-meter that can check the caps, I'm going to scope some of the signals first before I begin removing caps and checking them. I didn't notice any bulging, but I'll definitely take a better second look at it.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old November 9th, 2017, 12:03 PM
Conrad_Turbo Conrad_Turbo is offline
Seer Deluxe
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by rprade View Post
I would strongly suspect it is one of the electrolytics. An ESR meter is the best way to test them. They will sometimes bulge on top. Most power supply problems are leaky capacitors. The mess you see isn't necessarily flux. A lot of manufacturers started using organic (citrus based) in place of volitile solvents to remove the flux and they can leave residue.
I'm at my wits end with these Z-wave devices, I've probably got 20 of these throughout my house and garage and in the last 3 years I have continually chewed through a few of these and have replaced 6-7 so far, and two more were replaced under warranty in which Linear really dragged their heels on. Not good when they're $50-60/ea...the WAF goes down when I have to replace a lightswitch in about a year, when a regular switch costs $1 and virtually never needs replacement.

I have typically replaced them due to twitchy relays, to the point where you can hear them chatter off and on, so quick that the fluorescent light doesn't have a chance to turn on. However it's not the relay, I suspect that it's U1 based on when I went through this back in May. All I can find for a marking is "H224C" and on another was marked as "H224F" and I have yet to find a datasheet for it, to try and come up with an equivalent.

I have disassembled a few of these switches and when the low voltage board (z-wave and pushbutton interface) is powered from a lab bench power supply I can add it to my network and control it no problem through homeseer. So the failure is completely isolated to the high voltage side and it seems to be primarily from this voltage regulator, U1. I have 4 or 5 of these sitting in a drawer that may all need this part to be replaced.

What brought this post up again, is now I have one in the garage that responds to z-wave commands as well as the physical switch, however the relay doesn't click at all. So I am suspecting maybe a different dead component, as this one went from working fine to not being able to control the load at all. While all the others get pulled from service once the relay chatter starts and it stops responding to z-wave commands.

I also spent some time and came up with a component list as well as a circuit diagram to lay all the components out.

Component List - Description
DB1 - DF06S Bridge Rectifier
K1 - 507H-1AH-F-S Single Pole NO Relay
M1 - 140241K MOV
Q1 - PN2222A PNP Transistor
H1 - Bel Fuse T500mA 250v Radial Can
R3 - 15kΩ RESISTOR
L1 - 2200µH, 10% tolerance
L2 - Black Cylinder
U1 - H224F
U2 - LT1121CZ-3.3
D1 - DIODE AT BASE OF RELAY
D2 - MUR160 RECTIFIER
D3 - 1N4746A 18V ZENER DIODE
C1 - 100nF (0.1µF) CAPACITOR
C2 - 100µF 25V CAPACITOR
C3 - 10µF 25V CAPACITOR
C4 - 33nF - 333k CAPACITOR
C5 - 1µF 250V CAPACITOR
C6 - MKP62 CAPACITOR
C12 - SMD BOTTOM
C13 - SMD BOTTOM
C14 - SMD BOTTOM

I can't be the only one having horrible reliability with these switches can I? My goal is to fix these ones, but going forward I will most likely be buying the Homeseer switches due to the instant status and hopefully greater reliability.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old November 10th, 2017, 07:57 PM
Conrad_Turbo Conrad_Turbo is offline
Seer Deluxe
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 265
I realized that the circuit layout didn't come up, this is what I determined when checking all the connections on the board. I didn't bother with the low voltage board as that doesn't seem to be prone to failure.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Linear WS15Z-1 - one dead and another glitchy Conrad_Turbo HomeSeer Z-Wave Plug-in 4 August 30th, 2016 03:55 PM
Last polled or transmitted Gunneyk HomeSeer General Discussion Area 0 June 4th, 2015 09:21 AM
HA03 Lamp Module goes off when polled benposton HomeSeer Z-Wave Plug-in 2 January 1st, 2015 11:36 AM
HA14c Status not updating instantly or when polled Raptor HomeSeer Z-Wave Plug-in 12 April 2nd, 2009 10:22 AM
State changes everytime the new secu16 is polled jjonline ADI Ocelot 2 June 2nd, 2005 08:08 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:23 PM.


Copyright HomeSeer Technologies, LLC