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    #31
    Great idea Bob!

    I think we (forum users) ought to start a new hardware thread for Dr. Flash to help.

    What do you think Dr.Flash about creating a separate hardware section for you device here on the Homeseer forum?

    Relating to weather in general these days here there is never any live tv on, rather mostly just recorded television or streaming video from the internet.


    Attaching a weather picture here of someone mowing their lawn while a nearby tornado is seen in the picture.

    [ATTACH]61546[/ATTACH]
    Last edited by Pete; June 5, 2017, 07:44 AM.
    - Pete

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      #32
      Originally posted by Pete View Post
      Great idea Bob!

      I think we (forum users) ought to start a new hardware thread for Dr. Flash to help.

      What do you think Dr.Flash about creating a separate hardware section for you device here on the Homeseer forum?

      Relating to weather in general these days here there is never any live tv on, rather mostly just recorded television or streaming video from the internet.


      Attaching a weather picture here of someone mowing their lawn while a nearby tornado is seen in the picture.

      [ATTACH]61546[/ATTACH]
      Just saw this on the news this morning. I guess when you got your honey do list...

      Comment


        #33
        In HS2 days I would send myself a HS2 lightning graph / alert to my mobile phone when golfing which worked for me way better than what the local golf course provided.

        Over the years have added the NOAA radio alerts to this stuff. I have moved the radio alerts over to the alarm panel over the years which triggers alerts on Homeseer / TTS stuff in the house. Same as voltage surges and water/flood sensors.

        Wife never has paid much attention to the weather automation stuff except for a few times where the winds have torn up a couple of older trees, ripped out the grill, moved very heavy potted trees on the deck. We were in the basement and I wanted to take pictures and we spoke about the wind speeds while the anemometer clocked around 75MPH winds. One 35 foot tree in the front yard did bend so much that the top of the tree touched the ground then broke.
        Last edited by Pete; June 5, 2017, 09:25 AM.
        - Pete

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          #34
          Thank you for the kind welcome.

          A new thread
          It is suggested to open a new thread, dedicated to the EMP-sensors. So far, I've tried to create a manual / datasheet for (each) such sensors. OK,. the last one, I directed users to previous model, but resulted in some confusion. For me a reason to create a new manual.
          However, the sensors are no real mystery, since there's an analog and / or digital output.
          If there's a real need for a dedicated thread / forum for these sensors, it's OK. However, I keep in mind that I'm active at a site from HomeSeer. It's important they support / approve it.

          Howto
          It is intentionally kept simple, by just keep the pin-count low. Two pins for powersupply, 1 or 2 for output. So, whatever system you use, from Arduino to RaspBerry Pi, or whatever : there are in basic 3 ways for detection :
          1) Digital
          2) Digital triggered
          3) AD-conversion

          > Digital
          For digital detection, sourcecode for your device is just checking what the current status is. Because a strike takes a few milliseconds, it requires a "loop"-event to check it. However, it's not the best way for detection, since it really can occupy your system resources, not being able to perform other tasks. However, including a delay mechanism, or a "(re)set"-system, might make it interesting. Using this type of mechanism, means it's not time-critical.

          > Digital triggered
          A microcontroller is able to get triggered by an interrupt. This means, the microcontroller is requested to pay attention when a status-shift occurs. As long as the status is not changed, the microcontroller can perform other tasks. In other words, it can spend its time to all other tasks, until the trigger is activated. And remember, a strike is a millisecond-event. So it just takes a few milliseconds to draw the attention to the strike-event. And after this ? The microcontroller can return to it's usual "rites" / tasks.

          > AD-conversion
          AD-conversion means to measure analogue values, convert them into numbers (data) for further processing (like plotting). Many microcontroller (not all !) contain an integrated AD-converter (= ADC). Some are 8-bit, some 10-bit, and I expect, some even higher. There're also dedicated ICs for this task, with different type of protocols to communicate, like I2C, serial, parallel, bluetooth, WiFi and.. well tonnes of options. For those who get confused by "protocols to communicate",.. it's merely the "language" and rules of politeness, 2 or more devices communicate with each other.
          In general, it's all about the desired resolution (xx bits) and samplingspeed. (I.e. I know Analog Devices does have very interesting ADC ICs)

          Advice
          If you're just interested if a strike took place, for safety purpose, you don't need details about how the strike performed. If you're curious what happens in the air, when a strike takes place, continious AD-conversion is an interesting option.
          If your system is to track multiple sensors / signals, it's best to keep it event-driven by interrupts (concerning lighting-strikes). If you also like to get the details, add AD-conversion as a follow-up to a trigger (interrupt) event.

          Sourcecode or not
          Mentioned it before, there are several types of systems (Arduino, RaspBerry Pi, etc.). It's very time-consuming to write / program source-codes or scripts for each system. Besides, such a system is ment for a user to explore, to learn, to enjoy experiments. If you however understand the basic of interrupt-events and ADC, you can start writing any software / script you like, even including graphical plots. Frankly, I assume there are already people who develop some tools in the background,.. right now.
          After all, the sensors work pretty simple and straight forward. Some might even consider more sophisticated solutions, by introducing an extra device, like a high speed AD-converter, via I2C, UART, or... whatever protocol. However, it comes down to 3 simple ways of detect signals. Each (microcontroller)system has its own programming language, and I'm pretty sure for each of them, you can find some snippets of code. It'll be cut & paste,... and modify & verify.

          -=[ Edit ]=-
          I don't own a HomeSeer-system. To be open and honest, this means I've no knowledge about how to connect an EMP-sensor to such system. I assume there are some sockets or alike avilable at this system. I would deeply appreciate it if someone is willing to shine a light on this. This information might definitely help other users, but also to me to decide if the sensors require some (hardware) modifications.
          Last edited by Dr.Flash; June 5, 2017, 04:25 PM.

          Comment


            #35
            Thank you Bernard!!

            I received your device today....very fast delivery!!!

            I like to tinker here with hardware and am looking forward to tinkering with your device / sensor and integrating it to the Homeseer application.

            Homeseer offers a base and opportunity to be able to connect just about any type of hardware.

            That said as it becomes documented and used with Homeseer you will see forum users shining a light on uses and methodology of use with your device.

            Thank you again Bernard for providing us a new device to tinker with!
            - Pete

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              #36
              Picture of initial tinkering. (ahh....again using the Kitchen table (low on the WAF))....

              Note: suggested WAF disclaimer. Do not solder on the kitchen table and use scotch tape on soldering joints. Wireless module is a 3VDC 100 feet only dohicky running at 433Mhz. It has a little reed switch on it - I would remove the reed switch to use it ...if I was going to use it.

              [ATTACH]61563[/ATTACH]

              Got LED freebie - thank you Bernard.

              Looking forward to the USB module upgrade. Wow!!! I can just plug this in to the RPi2 in the attic. Been using mini com a lot lately. No need to use the 1-wire counter now.

              [ATTACH]61562[/ATTACH]

              Specs: (ahhh..this is neat and easy).
              - Length of data string 20 measurements per transmission (Sample speed = Low)100 measurements per transmission
              (Sample speed Medium, High and Highest)
              - Type of values
              - Present measurements in HEX or Decimal values in string of 20 or 100 values per transmission or so called "burst".
              Good to know ... Decimal values requires an internal conversion and results into a slower sampling rate.
              The speed can be tested by a command.

              Will it be available soon?
              Last edited by Pete; June 6, 2017, 09:10 AM.
              - Pete

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              Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
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                #37

                OK,. now I can also inform about the following :
                As you know, I await the new boards for the EMP-sensors. Included in this order is also the new EMP2PC (with integrated sensor). Yes, also other boards are included which are EMP-sensor related, but won't give any details overhere, yet..

                Because I need to wait for the new boards to arrive, I decided to take some time to write a small program. Yesterday, I tried to catch up with Visual Basic 2010, to create a small program for an EMP2PC. Initially I thought : "Just take a few minutes to write a basic program."
                My latest experiences were with VB 6.0, and now I need to admit a lot have changed. It takes more time than expected to understand. At the moment I'm working on COMport-connection. It's not easy to understand how it operates under VB 2010, concenring receiving "strings". When this hurdle is taken, I move on to "plotting a realtime graph". I bet it'll be the same type of hurdle.

                P.S. Pete, I noticed you power the EMP-sensor by an USB-plug. Remember, the A(analogue) and D(igital) pins can't be hooked up to the data-lines of an USB-connection / port for read-outs.

                -=[ EDIT ]=-
                Some people might wonder why the EMP2PC is using "burst of data" and not a continious flow of data. I'll explain.
                An USB-port can be connected to a max. amount of 127 USB-devices. A computer is checking for connected devices on a continious basis, so your Operating System (Windows, Linux, MacOS or whatever) will update if an USB-device is available or absent. Let's assume it's checking every single second if there are new devices connected or removed. This means, a second gets sliced into 127 parts. Also, on some occassions, data is transmitted from and to each USB-device. This is the reason why it's virtually not possible to have a continious dataflow. In other words, the best solution is to send measured data in bursts to a computer. By experiments, I've tried to find the optimum datalength to transmit per burst. Also -and it's still a mystery to me- a string of HEX-values is transmitted easier / faster than decimal values.

                Pete, it's great you show some photos. Like mentioned before : a picture is worth a 1.000 words. Two thumbs up !
                Last edited by Dr.Flash; June 6, 2017, 11:20 AM.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Great news Bernard!!

                  Yup; here Homeseer runs in Ubuntu Linux Mono and Windows and iOS.

                  Yes here only hooked up the power from board to USB cable. Measured laptop at around 5.12VDC. I was going to plug it in to one of those mini USB wall warts and let it run a few days like this. Would this USB wall power plug also work?

                  Thank you Bernard; photography is another hobby here. Still use a regular SLR (well digital) as it feels more like a camera than the smart phone camera.
                  - Pete

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                    #39
                    Adapter
                    I think it'll do fine at 5.12V. USB is specified -if I remember well- at 5.0V, plus or minus 0.25V. So, 5.12V is within the safe range.

                    Technique
                    In essence an USB wall power plug might work fine, although I guess it's a small device. There's a chance the transformation from 110V AC or 230V AC to 5V DC, is done by a special technique. Forgot the name of it (powerswitching or switching powersupply ?). This technique is much more efficient than a plain transformer. However, it won't be a clean 5V DC, rather with some ripple in it. If you get a worse designed adapter, the ripple can be unacceptable, by showing drastic spikes or dips.
                    I need to comment on this : small ripple is OK.

                    Trouble
                    Also, if such adapter is i.e. calculated for 250mA, it might shut down, if powerconsumption is below 10% (25mA). I need to emphasize "might".
                    So far I've used several adapters based upon this technique. Most of the time they'll work fine, even at low powerconsumption. In rare occassions I got one, which refused to operate. Later I figured out it was because of the low powerconsumption.

                    And more
                    In general it comes down to rectify 110 or 230 V AC to high Voltage DC and then PWM-ing to 5V DC. I remember Power Integrations Inc got such ICs (TOP24x-series). If less lucky, it contains an el-cheapo design, which radiates / emits RF-signals : some operate at near 125 KHz, some in the MHz-range. It might interfere with the EMP-sensor,... give it a try.

                    Give it a try
                    Bottomline : you can try such adapter without expecting trouble. But if trouble occur, above are things to keep in mind.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Thank you DrFlash.

                      Yes this is using an IPhone style adapter (very small wall outlet USB power device - will post a pictuer). It is only utilized for cell phones. I utilize a larger one (bigger footprint) for the tablets. Hopefully it's OK power. It is a switching power supply. Really just something that I could do in 10 minutes in the Kitchen here. (low on the WAF - wife acceptance factor - do it none the less sometimes). In the basement workroom workbench have proper tools to tinker, soldering station, hot air machine, big lamp with magnifying glass, adjustable power supply...and that is where I should be....

                      It is only temporary until it is connected to you new module A and the Homeseer automation computer. If I use the USB module then the power will come from the USB port. I recall in Windows I would disable power managment of the port. I do similar in Linux.

                      Here utilize a powered Digi 7 port USB hub and 2 Digi 8 port Edgeports (also utilize Lantronix). In the attic RPi2 it would be a direct to RPi2 connection which is sourced via a POE connection to the basement POE switch.
                      Last edited by Pete; June 6, 2017, 07:02 PM.
                      - Pete

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                        #41
                        My plan, is to cobble up a self contained/self powered unit. Since I have most of the parts on hand, this should be something I can get done in a day or two from now. I have most of the circuit built up already on a proto board.

                        The digital output of the EMP board will be driving a 555 chip configured as a retriggerable multivibrator to elongate the pulse to perhaps 1 second or so, but this will be adjustable. The timer will be driving a small DIP relay which in turn will drive an Everspring SM103 Z-Wave Door/Window sensor I had lying around.

                        The whole apparatus, mounted in a small box, will be powered by a small solar cell which will charge a Li-Ion or NiMH battery (whichever works best), and be mounted near the southern peak of my garage roof.
                        Real courage is not securing your Wi-Fi network.

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                          #42
                          Have you received your EMP board?

                          Here just testing the sensitivity inside of the house and comparing it to the 1-wire Hobby boards sensor inside.

                          Might be two of them now with one connecting to Homeseer using the Module A USB board and another using a debounce circuit to the alarm panel next to the NOAA radio connection to the panel.

                          Weather here has been nice with no rain, clouds, storms or lightning...such that I have not heard a peep.

                          Moved it over to the Samsung Hub as it sitting near the media center in the family room.
                          Last edited by Pete; June 8, 2017, 12:28 PM.
                          - Pete

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                            #43
                            The board(s) arrived Monday. I had to go on a road trip Tuesday so this is the first day I've had to play. I've been triggering a short pulse with a nearby relay which produces enough of an arc to do the job. I do get an interesting pulse on the scope, but it doesn't seem to be enough to produce a tone from the buzzer, not that I'll need that.

                            I did buy two EMP boards so I can also experiment with using a PI where I can do much more with frequency and intensity detection.

                            Had a setback. The battery in the solar panel I have left over from an old string of solar powered Xmas lights is flat. It's a 3.2V Lithium Ion Phosphate 1200mAh battery and I've had to order one from Winnipeg. May be a week to get it. The panel itself is about 5 inches square and weatherproof.

                            Meantime, the 555 chips should be here tomorrow so I'll be able to go ahead with most of my circuit on the weekend. I'm thinking of adding a bit more logic so weak pulses (far distant lightning) can be ignored.

                            Here too, not that many storms, although rain is predicted tomorrow, so maybe...

                            I did use the HB one-wire lightning detector for a few years but I was never really comfortable having a wire stuck straight up in the air, and indirectly leading into the house. I described the setup and circuit to Environment Canada once; they said "Well, there is a certain level of risk with that".

                            At least this, as planned, will be entirely wireless.
                            Real courage is not securing your Wi-Fi network.

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                              #44
                              Had rain last night / early this morning.

                              Not much of a thunderstorm though and no triggering of the sounder. Looking at the old 1-wire sensor there was a bit of lightning but not much (less than 100 lightning strikes so registered on counter that is in the basement).

                              As mentioned the device is just plugged in to (for power) in to a Samsung hub on the main floor of the house.

                              So now want to look at the analog or digital outputs but make it esthetically pleasing without moving it to the workbench in the basement.

                              I do have here a few debounce boards plus a while ago purchased a bag of Arduino's, sensors, wires, et al.

                              But at this time not wanting to put this concoction in the living room or kitchen table.

                              Rather instead to keep it simple want to connect it to an old MR11A door sensor / old X10 alarm module / or new Zigbee wireless module (which I have a bunch of) which will just be two wires.

                              @Greg, how do I connect the two wires from the MR11A to the Lightning detector?

                              I want to keep it simple (WAF stuff) and waiting for module A and not wanting to hodgepodge much more hardware to the device at this time.

                              What do I connect to what? I'll just trigger some Homeseer TTS or Chime for time bean.

                              Note that I am not an electrical engineer and only tinker and am familiar with what I tinker with. I have a few tools here on the workbench but I am guessing many Homeseer users do not.

                              Please write in laymen (non electrical engineer) terms.

                              Well instead going to connect the device to this board (have a few of these around) instead. (it will be low on the WAF). Using something similiar for my doorbell to alarm panel configuration and mailbox sensor and geophone sensors. Found a couple of these around here...thinking I did a bulk purchase of these for some $5 each. Now looking on Ebay I see none which is interesting.

                              [ATTACH]61628[/ATTACH]
                              Last edited by Pete; June 9, 2017, 09:02 AM.
                              - Pete

                              Auto mator
                              Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
                              Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
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                                #45
                                Originally posted by Pete View Post
                                @Greg, how do I connect the two wires from the MR11A to the Lightning detector?
                                Simplest terms: relay.

                                Perhaps a block diagram will help.

                                The NE555 is a common 8-pin timer chip. Costs less than $0.50 and can be configured using a couple of resistors and a capacitor to act as a monostable multivibrator to elongate the pulse to something usable by the DS. The relay I'm using is a small DIP package, SPST I have on hand. The coil might draw a couple of milliamps at most.
                                Attached Files
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