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PI-SonosController (3P) Discussion of Sonos Controller Plug-in

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  #81  
Old January 8th, 2012, 11:13 PM
dcorsus dcorsus is offline
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New beta v.78 posted

Changes to v1.0.0.78:

  • When you select music by specifying an album, the resulting tracks will be sorted by track number and not by trackname. If you select tracks without an album (all tracks or all tracks from an artist or genre), the tracknames will remain sorted by name.
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  #82  
Old January 16th, 2012, 02:53 AM
dcorsus dcorsus is offline
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New beta v.79 posted

Changes to v1.0.0.79:

  • Fixed this benign start up error "Error in UpdateHS updating other linked zones. SourceZone=Family Room. TargetZone=RINCON_000E58526B2001400. Error = Object variable or With block variable not set."
  • Event player state change missing after announcement
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  #83  
Old January 16th, 2012, 03:36 AM
LeoS LeoS is offline
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Hi dirk,

I'm considering sonos as a whole-house music and homeseer announcement system for an AP800 driven mic system. Can you tell me how much delay is there between homeseer dispatching the announcement and sonos speakers playing it?

I would like to add that input to be echo-cancelled by the AP800 but worried the delay is too great to even work.

Thanks in advance,

-Leo
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  #84  
Old January 16th, 2012, 12:04 PM
dcorsus dcorsus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoS View Post
Hi dirk,

I'm considering sonos as a whole-house music and homeseer announcement system for an AP800 driven mic system. Can you tell me how much delay is there between homeseer dispatching the announcement and sonos speakers playing it?

I would like to add that input to be echo-cancelled by the AP800 but worried the delay is too great to even work.

Thanks in advance,

-Leo
At best it would take 1 to 2 seconds to link the players and stream the announcement. The more players you have the longer it is going to take.

I'm somewhat confused with what you are trying to accomplish. Echo-cancellers would be effective if you stream real-time from microphone to speakers. That's not what is meant by announcements for this plug-in, it is converting text to speech and stream the file via the Sonos system. Maybe you are interested in the latency of a Sonos audio input to it's output, is that the question? That latency is very small but you're probably better off posting that question on the Sonos forums.

Dirk
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  #85  
Old January 16th, 2012, 10:31 PM
dcorsus dcorsus is offline
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Latest beta .v79 was posted on the updater

Just FYI but v79 is now the latest official release and available on the updater.
Dirk
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  #86  
Old January 17th, 2012, 04:22 AM
LeoS LeoS is offline
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Originally Posted by dcorsus View Post
At best it would take 1 to 2 seconds to link the players and stream the announcement. The more players you have the longer it is going to take.
Oh, that doesn't sound too good. But I've already pulled the trigger on some Sonos pieces anyway.

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I'm somewhat confused with what you are trying to accomplish. Echo-cancellers would be effective if you stream real-time from microphone to speakers. That's not what is meant by announcements for this plug-in, it is converting text to speech and stream the file via the Sonos system.
Oops, I guess I used the wrong term. Should've said 'noise cancelling'.

Ref: http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=109542 (Paul's master thread on AP800)

Basically the AP800 can take audio inputs that it'll filter out of the mic line to improve HS voice recognition performance. I've read people feeding the AP800 background music line, HA announcement audio and even outdoor microphones to filter out environmental noises.

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Maybe you are interested in the latency of a Sonos audio input to it's output, is that the question? That latency is very small but you're probably better off posting that question on the Sonos forums.
I'm interested to know the time difference between the PC soundcard outputting the HS Annoucement audio and the (selected) Sonos speaker(s) playing out that audio. If the time difference is less than a second, I think it should be safe?
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  #87  
Old January 17th, 2012, 11:44 AM
dcorsus dcorsus is offline
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Originally Posted by LeoS View Post
Oops, I guess I used the wrong term. Should've said 'noise cancelling'.
Basically the AP800 can take audio inputs that it'll filter out of the mic line to improve HS voice recognition performance. I've read people feeding the AP800 background music line, HA announcement audio and even outdoor microphones to filter out environmental noises.
If noise cancelling, I don't think that any delay of Sonos will matter. From what I understand that Paul (and you) want to do, is you hook up one Sonos output to the AP800 and it will use that to filter out the music (or announcement) that is playing from what it picks up from the microphone(s) that you use for VR. All of this is in real-time, as far as I can tell, not influenced of how long it takes to link and actually play the announcement.

Dirk
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  #88  
Old January 17th, 2012, 02:25 PM
LeoS LeoS is offline
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Originally Posted by dcorsus View Post
If noise cancelling, I don't think that any delay of Sonos will matter. From what I understand that Paul (and you) want to do, is you hook up one Sonos output to the AP800 and it will use that to filter out the music (or announcement) that is playing from what it picks up from the microphone(s) that you use for VR. All of this is in real-time, as far as I can tell, not influenced of how long it takes to link and actually play the announcement.
If I have to feed Sonos' output back to AP800, that means I will have to run audio wires to all of the Sonos devices; because the announcements could be sent to individual Sonos/rooms or groups of Sonos.

More over, not all Sonos devices have line-out. Please correct me if I'm wrong?
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  #89  
Old January 17th, 2012, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by LeoS View Post
If I have to feed Sonos' output back to AP800, that means I will have to run audio wires to all of the Sonos devices; because the announcements could be sent to individual Sonos/rooms or groups of Sonos.

More over, not all Sonos devices have line-out. Please correct me if I'm wrong?
OK, I think I now understand where you want to go. You had in mind to take the output feed of the speaker client and run that in the the AP800 and have it "subtract" it from what the microphones are picking up, that it? In that case, you would have to use the plugin in "non Speak-to-file" mode, meaning, you have to have one of your zones physically connected to what I assume the same speaker client output as the one you had in mind to hook up to the AP800. So now, the only problem is the latency added by the sonos player for it to digitize your analogue input, stream it to other players, sync output and then convert back to analogue. I have no idea what that (added) latency is, that is something for you to find an answer on the Sonos forums. Having that said, depending on how "intelligent" the AP800 is, it might actually not work, it all depends on how the AP800 was designed. If it is somewhat more "analogue" where different inputs are extracted from each other, this won't work. If it is digital and the AP800 can "delay" your microphone input to match up with the (added) latency by the Sonos player, a DSP could then subtract (or filter out) one from the other.

Are these microphones going to be in different rooms or in one room? You could use two microphones with one being next to the Sonos speaker and use that to filter out what the other microphone is picking up.

Alternatively, you could just not speak while there is an announcement

In fact wouldn't your biggest challenge be when you have lot's of ambient noise, like when you play music and you are trying to say something to the VR system?

Assuming you have the mike in one room, you would solve that by buying one more sonos player (note I have zero affiliation with them), install it right next to the AP800, hook that player's output to your AP800 and now it can be used to filter out whatever it is playing, whether it is music or an announcement.

Cheers

Dirk
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  #90  
Old January 17th, 2012, 09:58 PM
LeoS LeoS is offline
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Originally Posted by dcorsus View Post
OK, I think I now understand where you want to go. You had in mind to take the output feed of the speaker client and run that in the the AP800 and have it "subtract" it from what the microphones are picking up, that it?
Yup, that's it!!

Quote:
Are these microphones going to be in different rooms or in one room? You could use two microphones with one being next to the Sonos speaker and use that to filter out what the other microphone is picking up.
They're going to be in different rooms. That's a very interesting solution for those players without line-out

Quote:
Alternatively, you could just not speak while there is an announcement
lol you got me there. But I also have concerns that (parts of) the HS Announcements are picked back up by the system as voice commands?

Quote:
In fact wouldn't your biggest challenge be when you have lot's of ambient noise, like when you play music and you are trying to say something to the VR system?
Yes, that's right..

Quote:
Assuming you have the mike in one room, you would solve that by buying one more sonos player (note I have zero affiliation with them), install it right next to the AP800, hook that player's output to your AP800 and now it can be used to filter out whatever it is playing, whether it is music or an announcement.
Another interesting idea... except that I'm not made of money (yet)
I'll try some of those out... the tricky thing is that the house that I'm installing this to has concrete walls and dry-wall ceilings, so it's not easy to reconfigure the cable positions and so forth...
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  #91  
Old January 17th, 2012, 10:29 PM
dcorsus dcorsus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoS View Post
But I also have concerns that (parts of) the HS Announcements are picked back up by the system as voice commands?

... the tricky thing is that the house that I'm installing this to has concrete walls and dry-wall ceilings, so it's not easy to reconfigure the cable positions and so forth...
If you are concerned about the announcement being picked up by the VR, the VR is programmed to "trigger" on a specific command before it goes into full VR mode. You could make sure that you use a word or sentence that is less common. Alternatively, you could add some actions (I assume) to whatever event that triggered the announcement to briefly disable VR when the announcements is made and re-enable VR afterwards.

As I wrote, I think your biggest challenge is to have the VR work while you have music playing or other sources of background noise, which makes it hard for the (cheap/SW?) implementation of Windows VR to recognize what you are trying to say.

Dirk
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  #92  
Old January 17th, 2012, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcorsus View Post
If you are concerned about the announcement being picked up by the VR, the VR is programmed to "trigger" on a specific command before it goes into full VR mode. You could make sure that you use a word or sentence that is less common. Alternatively, you could add some actions (I assume) to whatever event that triggered the announcement to briefly disable VR when the announcements is made and re-enable VR afterwards.

As I wrote, I think your biggest challenge is to have the VR work while you have music playing or other sources of background noise, which makes it hard for the (cheap/SW?) implementation of Windows VR to recognize what you are trying to say.

Dirk
You need to input the response of HS and any ambient noise to your noise concellation input, that way HS will only hear the command giving.
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  #93  
Old January 20th, 2012, 01:24 AM
LeoS LeoS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcorsus View Post
If you are concerned about the announcement being picked up by the VR, the VR is programmed to "trigger" on a specific command before it goes into full VR mode. You could make sure that you use a word or sentence that is less common. Alternatively, you could add some actions (I assume) to whatever event that triggered the announcement to briefly disable VR when the announcements is made and re-enable VR afterwards.
I'm thinking of installing some hard switches to connect/disconnect the mics. Maybe controlled through motion detection and time/scheduling.

Quote:
As I wrote, I think your biggest challenge is to have the VR work while you have music playing or other sources of background noise, which makes it hard for the (cheap/SW?) implementation of Windows VR to recognize what you are trying to say.
Noted.

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Originally Posted by Rotech View Post
You need to input the response of HS and any ambient noise to your noise concellation input, that way HS will only hear the command giving.
How do you get an area's ambient background noise without picking up the speaker's voice?
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  #94  
Old January 20th, 2012, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoS View Post


How do you get an area's ambient background noise without picking up the speaker's voice?
you need to connect the output of your amp to noise cancellation, that way, HS does not hear what its saying anyd any background noise thru a mic. I did not use the extra mic. because my home is kinda quiet when emmiting a command.
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  #95  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 07:59 AM
LeoS LeoS is offline
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Originally Posted by Rotech View Post
you need to connect the output of your amp to noise cancellation, that way, HS does not hear what its saying anyd any background noise thru a mic. I did not use the extra mic. because my home is kinda quiet when emmiting a command.
That is exactly the reverse of what I was asking about

Here are the players:

1. Our voice
2. HS voice prompts
3. Other system generated noise (background music, tv, etc)
4. Ambient noise

We want a clean sample of (1), yet we have to 'fight' (2), (3) and (4).
With AP800, we have a powerful tool to eliminate/reduce (2) and (3) by just piping those inputs as AP800's noise cancellation source.

Now my question was specifically about (4)
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  #96  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by LeoS View Post
That is exactly the reverse of what I was asking about

Here are the players:

1. Our voice
2. HS voice prompts
3. Other system generated noise (background music, tv, etc)
4. Ambient noise

We want a clean sample of (1), yet we have to 'fight' (2), (3) and (4).
With AP800, we have a powerful tool to eliminate/reduce (2) and (3) by just piping those inputs as AP800's noise cancellation source.

Now my question was specifically about (4)
You may need to link a 2nd AP to the first so you can elemnate (4), I think Ap only has one input for echo cancellation. (4) will connect to the 2nd AP.
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  #97  
Old February 4th, 2012, 08:13 PM
dcorsus dcorsus is offline
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New beta v.81 posted

Changes to v1.0.0.81:

  • When you use the basic music browser template in HS Touch, when you deploy and navigate to "Playlist" you will now see your playlist. Change in behavior is that clicking a track will now start playing from that track and continue on. This should be in line with how the Windows Media and iTunes plugin work
  • Added a button to manually trigger a rediscovery of zone players. There is now an option in the config settings, to turn the automatic discovery off
  • Added a few options in the .ini file so you can customize the AnnouncementTitle, Album and Author
  • Made some minor optimizations around trigger events during announcements.
  • Thought I had solved this but maybe now I have finally solved this pesky "Generic error occurred in GDI+" when retrieving Albumartwork
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  #98  
Old February 5th, 2012, 12:00 AM
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Dirk

I installed new ver, and activated the show failing pings just to see what happens, in the log appears this:

2/4/2012 10:48:32 PM - SONOSCONTROLLER - FindZonePlayers found non Sonos device with UDN = uuid:00:14:d1:bc:fd:ba Friendly Name = HomeSeer(rotech)

its not an error, but just wanted to know if this was normal. also what is you sugestions in regards of the periodis funtions should we have it checked?
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  #99  
Old February 5th, 2012, 01:22 AM
dcorsus dcorsus is offline
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2/4/2012 10:48:32 PM - SONOSCONTROLLER - FindZonePlayers found non Sonos device with UDN = uuid:00:14:d1:bc:fd:ba Friendly Name = HomeSeer(rotech)
perfectly normal, if you can call it that way. Let me guess Windows XP and you have "home seer is discoverable using UPNP" in the home seer "setup" on. This is some issue with XP but the plug-in can deal with it, so no problem what so ever.

Dirk
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  #100  
Old February 5th, 2012, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by dcorsus View Post
perfectly normal, if you can call it that way. Let me guess Windows XP and you have "home seer is discoverable using UPNP" in the home seer "setup" on. This is some issue with XP but the plug-in can deal with it, so no problem what so ever.

Dirk
Yes that's correct..... How about the periodic funtions?
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