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    RF PLM module not responding errors.

    Hello,
    I have been having this problem for months now, and have completely run out of ideas, so I hope posting it here may shed some light on the issue.

    Hardware & Software specs:
    HS3PRO Version 3.0.0.313
    Insteon Version 3.0.6.0
    Windows 10 Pro 64Bit
    128G SSD & 5G Ram
    Dual core 2.7GHz & 2.7GHz

    I have an event, that triggers when ever the Insteon Module is not responding. This event triggers many times a week, and 0-5 times a day, completely random.

    **************************************************
    IF Interface stops responding
    Then Disable Interface
    Then Wait 1 Minute, 0 Seconds
    Then Enable Interface
    Then Wait 1 Minute, 0 Seconds
    Then Reset and Reprogram the Interface
    Then Run Event Email Routines - Insteon Maintenance - NOT RESPONDING - Email Notification
    **************************************************

    I have replaced the RF PLM serial interface with a good spare, and the problem continues.
    I have replaced the RF PLM serial interface with a brand new one, and the problem continues.

    So I thought it might be the actual serial port on the homeseer laptop it was running on. To that end, In a drastic attempt, I have now(yesterday 9/23/2017)replaced the homeseer computer with a completely different machine, a fresh and clean install of windows, then copied over the homeseer 3 directory.

    So at this point, it is extremely unlikely it is the PLM or the serial port of the homeseer computer.

    This morning, 9/24/2017 at 10:41am I again received a text from homeseer complaining that the interface module is not responding.

    I generated an error log, and it is attached.
    Can someone PLEASE point me in a different direction for troubleshooting this problem?

    Michael
    Attached Files

    #2
    based on the log, the PLM is NAKing the plugins requests to send.

    couple of things to do:

    1. remove the following action from your event. if the plugin can't talk to the plm, this will only generate more errors. And in general isn't need in this situation.

    Then Reset and Reprogram the Interface
    2. in your insteon.ini add the following. the default is 10. this will prevent the trigger from firing so frequently. restart the plugin after making the change.

    [tuning]
    FailMargin=20


    3. look for insteon devices that are misbehaving but flooding the network with msgs. it will cause the PLM to ignore the plm while it tries to handle the inbound msgs.

    4. look for electrical devices plugged in near the plm the are noisy.
    Mark

    HS3 Pro 4.2.19.5
    Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway | Tuya Smart Plugs
    Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | HS MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Tuya | Jon00 Charting | Jon00 Links
    Platform: Windows Server 2022 Standard, i5-12600K/3.7GHz/10 core, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD

    Comment


      #3
      Hi Mark,
      Thanks for the quick response!

      I did as you asked, and removed the reset & reprogram line from my PLM watchdog event.

      I also added the line, just like you wrote:
      [tuning]
      FailMargin=20

      Paying attention to upper and lower case letters. Then I restarted homeseer.

      So far so good, time will tell.


      How do you go about looking for a module that is misbehaving?
      I was thinking turning on the detailed log in the insteon configuration page, then maybe tomorrow, export that log to excel and sort it out.

      Did you have an easier way to do this?

      Michael

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by swanie2000 View Post
        How do you go about looking for a module that is misbehaving?
        I was thinking turning on the detailed log in the insteon configuration page, then maybe tomorrow, export that log to excel and sort it out.

        Did you have an easier way to do this?
        not sure the detailed log will help but give it a try. if the plm doesn't get a valid msg, it won't get logged.

        visit each device and see if the led is flashing excessively

        try the comm test on each device.

        otherwise its just trial and error
        Mark

        HS3 Pro 4.2.19.5
        Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway | Tuya Smart Plugs
        Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | HS MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Tuya | Jon00 Charting | Jon00 Links
        Platform: Windows Server 2022 Standard, i5-12600K/3.7GHz/10 core, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD

        Comment


          #5
          OK, I will start down the road of com testing each device. That will take a good while.

          I have already had the watchdog event trigger for the PLM
          "NOT COMMUNICATING" again. It only took a few hours to crap out, after I applied the above tweaks.

          Michael

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by swanie2000 View Post
            OK, I will start down the road of com testing each device. That will take a good while.

            I have already had the watchdog event trigger for the PLM
            "NOT COMMUNICATING" again. It only took a few hours to crap out, after I applied the above tweaks.

            Michael
            I truly believe something on the network is bogging down the plm.

            you can always turn off breakers to see if the issue goes away; this will help isolate the problem device.

            good luck
            Mark

            HS3 Pro 4.2.19.5
            Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway | Tuya Smart Plugs
            Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | HS MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Tuya | Jon00 Charting | Jon00 Links
            Platform: Windows Server 2022 Standard, i5-12600K/3.7GHz/10 core, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD

            Comment


              #7
              I ran the com test, for all devices, and have 12 suspects that failed at least one out of 4 tries.

              The worst of the bunch, all three of my motion detectors failed all 4 times each. However, I am not sure the plugin can test those, don't you need to put the motion sensor into linking mode, prior to the test?

              All of my wall mount switches have the little tab on the bottom to disconnect power to that device. I will shut down unused switches, for 1-2 days at a time, and see if I still get the watch dog reset of the PLM not responding.

              Is the USB PLM a better unit?
              I have always used the serial unit.

              Michael

              Comment


                #8
                Motion sensor would need to put into linking mode to test them. You should make sure that none of them or other RF only devices aren't the culprit.

                this is not a PLM issue, but in general, the serial is more reliable than the usb.
                Mark

                HS3 Pro 4.2.19.5
                Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway | Tuya Smart Plugs
                Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | HS MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Tuya | Jon00 Charting | Jon00 Links
                Platform: Windows Server 2022 Standard, i5-12600K/3.7GHz/10 core, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD

                Comment


                  #9
                  I have three Insteon Motion Sensors.
                  Hallway 39%
                  kitchen 40%
                  Laundry 42%

                  All three of these have about 40% Comm Reliability?
                  When you put any of these three Motion Sensors into link mode,
                  Then test Comm, they all report 4 on Hop-1. No failures.

                  Doesn't make any since to me, I thought for sure the Motion sensors were going to be the problem, but they seem to work fine in test.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    the comm stats for motion sensors is affected by programming which isn't perfect for RF devices. don't worry about the 40%.

                    so it might be a non-insteon device causing noise.
                    Mark

                    HS3 Pro 4.2.19.5
                    Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway | Tuya Smart Plugs
                    Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | HS MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Tuya | Jon00 Charting | Jon00 Links
                    Platform: Windows Server 2022 Standard, i5-12600K/3.7GHz/10 core, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Swanie2000, I have had the same problem you describe. It turned out to be caused by too much noise and weak signals on the Insteon network keeping the PLM too busy to respond consistently to HomeSeer. Click this link and scroll down to post #5 for ideas on how to make your Insteon network more robust. https://forums.homeseer.com/showthre...er#post1201038

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hi Burrington,

                        OK, I am at my wits end with this crap. I will follow your advise, and buy a signal meter, and filter all my computers, and switching power supplies. That will be a lot of stuff. I think the signal meter cost will be justified with the savings of filterlincs.

                        I have about 80 devices, and 3500 SqFt home. So I have a smaller insteon footprint, and smaller home. If you were able to fix your installation this way, Hopefully I will be able to as well.

                        Thanks for pointing me to that detailed post. Also, I would never have bought an x10 signal tester, because I have 100% insteon. Thank you for confirming that the x10 signal tester will also work with insteon. I have looked in the past for insteon signal testers, with no luck.

                        PS; I just purchased a Monterey Instruments Powerline Signal Analyzer on eBay for 80 Bucks! (Used) WooHoo! (Smart home was over 300.00 new)



                        Michael
                        Last edited by swanie2000; September 27, 2017, 08:15 PM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by swanie2000 View Post
                          Hi Burrington,

                          OK, I am at my wits end with this crap. I will follow your advise, and buy a signal meter, and filter all my computers, and switching power supplies. That will be a lot of stuff. I think the signal meter cost will be justified with the savings of filterlincs.

                          I have about 80 devices, and 3500 SqFt home. So I have a smaller insteon footprint, and smaller home. If you were able to fix your installation this way, Hopefully I will be able to as well.

                          Thanks for pointing me to that detailed post. Also, I would never have bought an x10 signal tester, because I have 100% insteon. Thank you for confirming that the x10 signal tester will also work with insteon. I have looked in the past for insteon signal testers, with no luck.

                          PS; I just purchased a Monterey Instruments Powerline Signal Analyzer on eBay for 80 Bucks! (Used) WooHoo! (Smart home was over 300.00 new)



                          Michael
                          Michael, Great find on the signal meter! You won't be sorry. The most important circuit to look at first is the one that the PLM is plugged into since all transmissions go out on that line, and all responses come back on that line. Usually we all plug our PLM into the same outlet as the Homeseer computer, which kills the signal right at the source. The other bad spot we all have is our A/V equipment, especially the TV. So even if you only buy a couple filterlincs to start with, and put one on your computer power bar, and one on your A/V power bar, you will make a BIG improvement in your system. The signal meter will help you locate all the other offenders and build yourself a very robust system.

                          Note that the X10 meter works perfectly for the signal strength, but knows nothing about the Insteon protocol. So it just shows jibberish for Insteon messages, but does show the correct signal strength. But that doesn't matter because Mark's plug-in tells you everything you need to know about the messages. The meter tells you where the weak signals are, and easily isolates the offender. Just plug the meter into the outlet with the suspect load (TV, computer, etc), send a signal from Homeseer, and read the signal strength. Then unplug the suspect and send the signal again. If there is a significant change in signal strength, put it on a filterlinc. If not, move on to the next suspect.

                          Note that you don't need to measure the signal strength of a message sent to a specific problem device. I found it helpful to use an Insteon (or X10) remote to trigger an event that sends an X10 command, example P16 PON. That way you are always comparing the same signal, and can send it from wherever in the house you are working. The X10 command can be seen on the meter as P16 PON with its signal strength beside it in Volts or mVolts. An unfettered signal will be transmitted at 4 to 5 volts, but you want to see a minimum of about 100mV (0.1V) at the receiving end for reliable Insteon/X10 operation.

                          For suspects that can not be unplugged (furnace, air conditioner, dishwasher, clothes washer, etc), you can plug your meter into a remote plug somewhere and get a reading with the suspect's breaker turned on and then off. A kitchen counter outlet is good for this because you can check both legs of the power by alternately plugging the meter into the top and bottom of the outlet. Saves having to figure out which phase of the panel the suspect is on.

                          Don't forget to check surge suppressor power bars, because quite a few of them are also X10/Insteon signal killers. If you have one of those with things plugged into it that are not killers, move that bar to the computer where you will need a filterlinc anyway.

                          Hope that helps... Bill

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Hi Bill,
                            Thanks for the tips! I do not have a hand held remote x10/Insteon device, but I think I can program an event in Homeseer to transmit an X10 signal every time the alarm panel reports "not ready". This way, I just need to open a door or window near where I am working. Homeseer will see the window/door open on the alarm panel, and trigger the event to send the x10 code. This way the signal is always coming from the PLM, and will provide for a consistent, repeatable, signal to test from.

                            I am also considering going to Home Depot/Lowes and buying 1 of every kind of power strip they sell. Invest about 100 bucks in a variety of surge protectors or power strips. Bring them all home, and test which ones help and which ones do not help, the signal.

                            All the ones that do not help, can be returned to the store. I am pretty sure they will be cheaper than 30.00/each for filterlincs. Worst case is none of them help the signal, and all of them are returned. Smarthome will love me if that is the case.

                            Michael

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Just wanted to post a small update.

                              I received my Montery Powerline Signal Analyzer today, and did some initial testing. I also decided to just bite the bullet, and purchased 10 Filterlincs from Smarthome the other day. I have at least that many things I think I could/should filter. However, they are not here yet.

                              I set up an event as to whenever my computer room spare light switch is turned on, Homeseer will send and X-10 code of "P" "all lights on". This event will continue to fire, every 5 seconds as long as the switch is on.

                              This allowed me to walk around the house, and randomly test for that signal.

                              In the same room with the Homeseer computer (second floor bedroom), I get a .6V reading. Adjacent rooms get .5v to .4V. By the time I walk down stairs, I get no reading at all, as if homeseer stopped sending the signal every 5 seconds. A quick trip back upstairs, to prove the 5 seconds timer is still doing its job, then back downstairs to nothing.

                              If this signal is this bad, I am surprised anything works. However, you can still see insteon traffic on the meter as gibberish, so you can see the switches are talking between themselves.

                              I do have an insteon phase coupler installed in the breaker panel. I would expect that the 120KHz signal for x10 or the 130KHz signal for insteon would get across the phases.

                              So I am thinking my insteon network must be relying on the RF ability of my dual band switches. I have about 50% upgraded to dual band.

                              I have never before considered the Filterlincs, but it sure looks like they will be needed. I guess I should count myself lucky not needing(or not knowing I needed) the Filterlincs for so long.

                              I will post back with results after the Filterlincs arrive.

                              Comment

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