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    #61
    Originally posted by mhiles View Post
    Still getting CM11A communication errors galore.
    When I was in the process of moving to HS3 I bought a CM11A to use with HS3 and continued to use my XTB 232 with HS2. It never worked very well. Once I fully switched over and I moved the XTB 232 to HS3 my X10 performance returned to very good to excellent.
    Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
    HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

    HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

    Comment


      #62
      Originally posted by Pete View Post
      Response times were slow and this is what I see in the logs.

      Mar-09 1:21:[B]39[B/] AM Device Control Device: X10 X10-A X10-A1-Chime to On (100) by/from: CAPI Control Handler
      Threadpool worker
      Mar-09 1:21:39 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 4 66 Size: 2
      Mar-09 1:21:39 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 6A
      Mar-09 1:21:39 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
      Mar-09 1:21:42 AM X10 WARNING CM11A Possible no response to send data, still waiting
      Mar-09 1:21:46 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55
      Mar-09 1:21:46 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 6 62 Size: 2
      Mar-09 1:21:46 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 68
      Mar-09 1:21:46 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
      Mar-09 1:21:49 AM X10 WARNING CM11A Possible no response to send data, still waiting
      Mar-09 1:21:51 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55

      Took 7 seconds to hear chime. Wondering if everybody using a CM11A is seeing the same warning messages?
      Pete,

      Thank you for jumping in and doing some testing!

      In order to help everyone understand what is happening I'd like to break down the CM11a log you provided...
      Code:
      Mar-09 1:21:39 AM 	  	Device Control 	Device: X10 X10-A X10-A1-Chime to On (100) by/from: CAPI Control Handler
      This is where HS3 makes a request to the X10 plugin to send A1 AON.

      Code:
      Mar-09 1:21:39 AM 	  	X10 DEBUG 	CM11A Sending: 4 66 Size: 2
      The plugin encodes the address (A1) into a 2 byte code (4 66) and sends it to the CM11a.

      Code:
      Mar-09 1:21:39 AM 	  	X10 DEBUG 	CM11A Got checksum: 6A
      The CM11a returns a checksum of the 2 byte code it just received.

      Code:
      Mar-09 1:21:39 AM 	  	X10 DEBUG 	CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
      The plugin verifies that the checksum it received is valid. In this case it is indicating that the CM11a correctly received the 1st command. The plugin then sends a "0" to tell the CM11a to transmit the data, A1 in this case, and waits for the CM11a to reply with a "55" indicating that the data has been transmitted.

      Code:
      Mar-09 1:21:42 AM 	  	X10 WARNING 	CM11A Possible no response to send data, still waiting
      The plugin has not received confirmation from the CM11a that the address A1 has actually been sent on the power line within 3 seconds so it writes a warning to the HS log to let us know.

      Code:
      Mar-09 1:21:46 AM 	  	X10 DEBUG 	CM11A Got ack of: 55
      Finally, after 7 seconds of waiting the plugin receives the acknowledge code of "55" from the CM11a indicating that the address A1 was successfully transmitted on the power line.

      Code:
      Mar-09 1:21:46 AM 	  	X10 DEBUG 	CM11A Sending: 6 62 Size: 2
      Now the plugin immediately starts sending the command AON.

      Code:
      Mar-09 1:21:46 AM 	  	X10 DEBUG 	CM11A Got checksum: 68
      The plugin rec'd the checksum.

      Code:
      Mar-09 1:21:46 AM 	  	X10 DEBUG 	CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
      Checksum was ok, tell the CM11a to send the command on the power line

      Code:
      Mar-09 1:21:49 AM 	  	X10 WARNING 	CM11A Possible no response to send data, still waiting
      Oops, having to wait more than 3 seconds for confirmation...

      Code:
      Mar-09 1:21:51 AM 	  	X10 DEBUG 	CM11A Got ack of: 55
      CM11a finally confirms that AON was sent. This took 5 seconds.

      So in this case, it took 12 seconds for HS3 to get the command A1 AON sent on the power line and get verification from the CM11a. Since you said it was 7 seconds from the time you issued the command and you heard the chime, I think the CM11a is struggling with validating that it has properly sent the data, hence the difference between your 7 seconds and the plugin reporting 12 seconds.

      There are two things that I need to note here:
      1) The delays are not being caused by HS3 or the X10 plugin, but by the CM11a.
      2) I have been stating that this "issue" (CM11A Possible no response to send data, still waiting) is an indication of poor a communication channel between the PC and CM11a. After going through the exercise of tracing this through I now see that while this could be true in some cases, the more likely cause is noise on the power line that is causing the CM11a to continually retransmit the data until it thinks it has sent it properly. Either that or the CM11a is failing and not able to transmit properly.

      To prove this I'd like to ask if you can do a simple test when you get a chance. You'll need an X10 noise filter, a power strip, a CM11a plugged into a HS3 machine and an X10 module.

      Plug the power strip into the output side of the noise filter, then plug the CM11a and module into the power strip. This isolates the CM11a & module from any noise on the power line.

      Try controlling the device from HS3 and see how quickly the module responds. Then check the HS3 log and see if the "CM11A Possible no response to send data, still waiting" warning is logged.

      Given the results of your tests with both the CM11a and Ocelot, I suspect the Ocelot does a much better job in a noisy environment than the CM11a. I have used both a CM11a and Ti103 in my environment and found the Ti103 to perform much better than the CM11a; especially if I intentionally allow the noise levels in my system to rise above 50mV.

      Thanks again for your help!!
      Best regards,
      -Mark-

      If you're not out on the edge, you're taking up too much room!
      Interested in 3D maps? Check out my company site: Solid Terrain Modeling

      Comment


        #63
        Will do. Earlier this morning when looking and finding the old Ocelot I came across a couple of the X10 5 AMP filters so will give it a try shortly.

        HS3 ==> USB to Serial device ==> CM11A ==> X10 noise filter ==> outlet next to fuse panel.

        I did not know you could use an X10 noise filter on the CM11A side as I have only used them (way back) on the noisy source side.

        I removed the two batteries from the CM11A earlier in the morning with original testing.

        Interesting results:

        Mar-09 11:07:23 AM Device Control Device: X10 X10-A X10-A1-Chime to On (100) by/from: CAPI Control Handler
        Mar-09 11:07:23 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 4 66 Size: 2
        Mar-09 11:07:23 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 6A
        Mar-09 11:07:23 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
        Mar-09 11:07:24 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55
        Mar-09 11:07:24 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 6 62 Size: 2
        Mar-09 11:07:24 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 68
        Mar-09 11:07:24 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
        Mar-09 11:07:24 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55
        Mar-09 11:07:49 AM Device Control Device: X10 X10-A X10-A1-Chime to Off (0) by/from: CAPI Control Handler
        Mar-09 11:07:49 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 4 66 Size: 2
        Mar-09 11:07:49 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 6A
        Mar-09 11:07:49 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
        Mar-09 11:07:49 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55
        Mar-09 11:07:49 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 6 63 Size: 2
        Mar-09 11:07:49 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 69
        Mar-09 11:07:49 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
        Mar-09 11:07:50 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55

        added a couple of the old relays with chimes such that I have 3 chimers and 2 relays going.

        No errors in log but....

        None of the chimes worked. I heard no chimes with the X10 filter in place. It is like the X10 filter is blocking the signal from the CM11A

        Also tested HS3 ==> CM11A ==> x10 filter ==> XTB Same results - no chimes. CM11A ==> XTB ==> X10 Filter Same results - no chimes.

        Tested heyu via command line from same computer with same results - no chimes

        Testing the TW523 connected to the Ocelot on a different serial port. I heard all of the chimes.

        A couple of years ago when testing Zoneminder / X10 triggers / CM11A never paid attention to timing; just that the triggers worked.
        Last edited by Pete; March 9, 2017, 12:24 PM.
        - Pete

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        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by Pete View Post
          HS3 ==> USB to Serial device ==> CM11A ==> X10 noise filter ==> outlet next to fuse panel.

          I did not know you could use an X10 noise filter on the CM11A side as I have only used them (way back) on the noisy source side.

          added a couple of the old relays with chimes such that I have 3 chimers and 2 relays going.

          No errors in log but....

          None of the chimes worked. I heard no chimes with the X10 filter in place.
          Pete,
          I'm confused a bit by your diagram.
          If I'm interpreting Mark correctly, then I'd expect:

          wall outlet ---> filter ---> outlet strip - CM11A and X10 device on outlet strip

          Is that how you have it configured, with the CM11A and the chime both on the outlet strip?
          Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
          HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

          HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

          Comment


            #65
            Yes just wrote it in reverse.

            PC ==> CM11A ==>terminal strip ==> X10 filter ==> 120VAC outlet
            120 VAC outlet ==> X10 filter ==> terminal strip ==> CM11A ==> PC

            The X10 filter is between the CM11A and the source 120VAC.

            The chimers are just placed all over the house. One in basement, main floor and 2nd floor.

            Will try one chimer on the same power strip as the CM11A in the next few minutes.

            Chimer worked on the power strip but none of the others worked.

            120VAC outlet ==> X10 Filter ==> Power strip with CM11A and Chimer plugged in

            Mar-09 11:39:57 AM Device Control Device: X10 X10-A X10-A1-Chime to On (100) by/from: CAPI Control Handler
            Mar-09 11:39:57 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 4 66 Size: 2
            Mar-09 11:39:57 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 6A
            Mar-09 11:39:57 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
            Mar-09 11:39:58 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55
            Mar-09 11:39:58 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 6 62 Size: 2
            Mar-09 11:39:58 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 68
            Mar-09 11:39:58 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
            Mar-09 11:39:58 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55


            I do have the circuits/outlets next to the panel for the PIMs with their own breakers in the panel. Same as for Jeff's dual phased TW-523 emulator.

            Next I have to try the other CM11A's that I have.
            Last edited by Pete; March 9, 2017, 12:47 PM.
            - Pete

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            Comment


              #66
              Originally posted by Pete View Post
              Yes just wrote it in reverse.
              Thanks.
              Chimer worked on the power strip but none of the others worked.

              120VAC outlet ==> X10 Filter ==> Power strip with CM11A and Chimer plugged in
              That's pretty interesting. It would seem that your filter is effective at isolating the CM11A . . . and that the CM11A signal is susceptible to interference from even moderate line noise.
              Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
              HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

              HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

              Comment


                #67
                Yes; so with the original XTB amplifier it works great but timing is a tad slow now that I am paying attention.

                Relating to using the TW523 XTB dual phased emulator connected to the OP2 panel or the TW523 connected via the Ocelot connected to HS3 I have no issues relating to timing or footprint.

                Googling earlier today though the CM11A did have issues in the 1990's. The issues were acknowledged by many automation folks at the time using X10. Hacking the hardware and customizing the firmware was something that many folks just didn't want to do at the time. That is where Jeff updated it. Here before the CM11A and using Windows 3.1/95/98 used the old CP290 controller which I still have around here someplace.
                - Pete

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                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by Pete View Post
                  I removed the two batteries from the CM11A earlier in the morning with original testing.

                  Interesting results:

                  Mar-09 11:07:23 AM Device Control Device: X10 X10-A X10-A1-Chime to On (100) by/from: CAPI Control Handler
                  Mar-09 11:07:23 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 4 66 Size: 2
                  Mar-09 11:07:23 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 6A
                  Mar-09 11:07:23 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
                  Mar-09 11:07:24 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55
                  Mar-09 11:07:24 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 6 62 Size: 2
                  Mar-09 11:07:24 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 68
                  Mar-09 11:07:24 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
                  Mar-09 11:07:24 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55
                  Mar-09 11:07:49 AM Device Control Device: X10 X10-A X10-A1-Chime to Off (0) by/from: CAPI Control Handler
                  Mar-09 11:07:49 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 4 66 Size: 2
                  Mar-09 11:07:49 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 6A
                  Mar-09 11:07:49 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
                  Mar-09 11:07:49 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55
                  Mar-09 11:07:49 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 6 63 Size: 2
                  Mar-09 11:07:49 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 69
                  Mar-09 11:07:49 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
                  Mar-09 11:07:50 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55
                  Pete, very interesting indeed! Was this before moving the CM11a to the power strip or after moving it? I have definitely seen issues with CM11a devices over the years when plugged in for extended periods of time with batteries installed. I do not use batteries in my test units.
                  Best regards,
                  -Mark-

                  If you're not out on the edge, you're taking up too much room!
                  Interested in 3D maps? Check out my company site: Solid Terrain Modeling

                  Comment


                    #69
                    This was with the CM11A and X10 chime on the power strip and the power strip plugged in to the X10 filter.

                    Homeseer ==> Digi Edgeport ==> powerstrip with CM11A & X10 Chime (A1) ==> X10 5AMP noise filter ==> 120VAC outlet

                    Only the chime on the power strip worked. None in the house worked.

                    I didn't know that the 10 5AM noise filter would filter out all of the X10 signals.

                    It also blocked the TW-523 from getting to the rest of the X10 switches.

                    After removing the filter see this.
                    Last edited by Pete; March 11, 2017, 01:05 AM.
                    - Pete

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                    Comment


                      #70
                      Working much better!

                      Mark, thank you!

                      Although not perfect, my system is WAY better. Typically I would get dozens of CM11A errors during my evening lighting events. Tonight there were 2! Further, I did some manual light switching with excellent, less than 1 second, responses and no errors. My CM11A was clearly being inhibited by line noise.

                      What did I do? I found and old Smarthome FilterLinc lying around I hadn't used in ages and put it between the CM11A and the XTB-IIR. Works great! See picture attached...ok, I can't figure out how to attach a picture from my phone. Lol

                      Mike
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by mhiles; March 10, 2017, 08:45 PM.

                      Comment


                        #71
                        OK so are you guys saying that a X10b noise filter is only one way?
                        sigpic
                        A founder member of "The HA Pioneer Group" otherwise known as the "Old farts club!"

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by mhiles View Post
                          What did I do? I found and old Smarthome FilterLinc lying around I hadn't used in ages and put it between the CM11A and the XTB-IIR. Works great!
                          Would you send this picture and an explanation of what you are doing to Jeff Volp, please? I'd very much like to hear his explanation for how/why this works.
                          Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                          HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                          HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

                          Comment


                            #73
                            I am going to give it another try.

                            Here copied HomeSeer to my Linux laptop, connected a USB to serial cable to the CM11A and tested in the kitchen with the CM11A plugged in to the nearest outlet.

                            Worked great and very fast - 1 second this time

                            Mar-10 11:54:53 PM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 4 66 Size: 2
                            Mar-10 11:54:53 PM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 6A
                            Mar-10 11:54:53 PM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
                            Mar-10 11:54:53 PM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55
                            Mar-10 11:54:53 PM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 6 62 Size: 2
                            Mar-10 11:54:53 PM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 68
                            Mar-10 11:54:53 PM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
                            Mar-10 11:54:54 PM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55

                            Yes this doesn't work with my X10 5AMP filter and I think I have a Filterlinc somewhere here.

                            Plugging in the CM11A back to the outlet by the fuse panel caused delays. Recently removed the CP303 blocking filter that was in the panel.

                            Will install it tomorrow.

                            @Gogs - this did not work with my X10 5 AMP filter here. Just blocked the x10 signal.

                            Tomorrow....did not install CP303 blocker yet but did another test with the CM11A plugged in to the XTB next to the fuse panel and response was instant.

                            Mar-11 8:21:45 AM Device Control Device: X10 X10-A X10-A1-Chime to On (100) by/from: CAPI Control Handler
                            Mar-11 8:21:45 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 4 66 Size: 2
                            Mar-11 8:21:45 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 6A
                            Mar-11 8:21:45 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
                            Mar-11 8:21:45 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55
                            Mar-11 8:21:45 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 6 62 Size: 2
                            Mar-11 8:21:45 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 68
                            Mar-11 8:21:45 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
                            Mar-11 8:21:47 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55
                            Mar-11 8:21:50 AM Device Control Device: X10 X10-A X10-A1-Chime to Off (0) by/from: CAPI Control Handler
                            Mar-11 8:21:50 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 4 66 Size: 2
                            Mar-11 8:21:50 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 6A
                            Mar-11 8:21:50 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
                            Mar-11 8:21:51 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55
                            Mar-11 8:21:51 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Sending: 6 63 Size: 2
                            Mar-11 8:21:51 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got checksum: 69
                            Mar-11 8:21:51 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Checksum OK, sending 0
                            Mar-11 8:21:51 AM X10 DEBUG CM11A Got ack of: 55
                            Last edited by Pete; March 11, 2017, 09:27 AM.
                            - Pete

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                            Comment


                              #74
                              Pete, thanks for your testing! Your results confirm that you have excessive noise in your X10 system. This is evidenced by the face that you had zero delays when the CM11a was isolated from your operating environment by the noise filter.

                              Just a note regarding the filter experiment. Placing the CM11a (or any X10 interface) BEHIND an X10 noise filter (any type) effective isolates it from the rest of your electrical system - as Pete discovered when none of his modules outside of the filter worked! DO NOT use this arrangement to try to fix your noise problems, it was only suggested to prove that the electrical environment is very noisy with respect to X10 signals.

                              There are two solutions to reliable X10 communication:

                              1) Permanantly unplug all devices that create X10 noise, such as: computers, UPS, microwave ovens, TVs, audio equipment, laptops, cell phone chargers, tablet chargers, garage door openers, etc. This is obviously not a real solution but included to illustrate that almost all electronic devices plugged into your electrical system are the absolute enemy of X10.

                              2) Procure and install X10 noise filters on every electronic device mentioned above. Most filters are rated for 5 amps and are good for most devices. For heavy-load such as refrigerators, microwave ovens or several items plugged into a power strip (PC, network gear, printer, etc.), be sure to use a 15A filter. This will block the X10 noise generated by the devices from entering your electrical system and give your X10 system a fighting chance.

                              Again, do not place X10 devices after an X10 filter as they will never work!

                              As I have mentioned in other posts about X10 issues, I have done this in my home and use a lot of noise filters. Once I did this my noise levels hover around 6 to 9mV and my system is 99% reliable.
                              Best regards,
                              -Mark-

                              If you're not out on the edge, you're taking up too much room!
                              Interested in 3D maps? Check out my company site: Solid Terrain Modeling

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Yeah here removed the CP303 blocker to clean up the panel. It wraps around the service ground so it is a PITA to reinstall / remove.

                                Thinking next to the panel I am getting external (outside of the house) X10 noise?

                                The kitchen test last night was some 50 feet from the panel as the crow flies (basement to kitchen).

                                Curious why the TW523 / Volp dual phase emulator continues to work just fine and fast?
                                - Pete

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                                HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
                                HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

                                X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

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