home seer or other?

[Xiphoid]

I realize I might get a biased answer on this board, but I'm wondering if anyone could give me an opinion of how Homeseer fares compared to other software from HAI and others. Before I get into the nitty gritty of a solution, I want to do a bit of due diligence.

Thanks!

[Rupp]

It's best you make your own decision as you know most of us are going to recommend HomeSeer. I would recommend downloading the free 30 day trial of HomeSeer and give it a test drive.
Do you know what you are wanting to accomplish? Which lighting protocol you want to use? Are you looking to interface with an alarm? etc.

[TechnoCat]

There are a few others, but really the other Big Dawg is PowerHome, written by Dave Howard. One of my friends swears by it. Take all this with a load of "it's my opinion, not fact":

• HomeSeer is (was?) friendlier.
• Both are "programmable" but in different ways:
  • HomeSeer is easier to write simple scripts for, but in HomeSeer-language.
  • PowerHome can have far more powerful scripts, written in any language.
  • HomeSeer supports very powerful Plug-Ins, and there are quite a few of them, in C# or VB, but they're complex to write.
  • PowerHome now has a pretty good SDK also. But not really (to my knowledge) much by way of plugins.
• PowerHome handled more complex situations better, perhaps due to SQL backend.
• HomeSeer scripts can have collisions that aren't issues with PowerHome, again perhaps due to Access back-end on HomeSeer.
• Both have been around a very long time.
• HomeSeer has a company behind it and should be able to support/add features better. PowerHome was written by Dave Howard, but Dave is incredibly responsive.
• HomeSeer had UPB first, but charges $40 for it. PowerHome added it later, but for free.
• PowerHome is less expensive. Both initially and with plug-ins.
• PowerHome does not support Z-Wave. HomeSeer is Z-Wave oriented.
• HomeSeer has a more active community.

It's a bit like a Ford-Chevy question. You can't go wrong either way if it meets your basic requirements. But since you will probably want either Z-Wave or UPB, despite the cost, HomeSeer is probably your better bet.

I don't think HAL rates in the same category. Maybe easier to set-up initially. SmartHome HouseLinc came out a few years ago and was so buggy that it resembled a software version of their (crappy unreliable death-prone) SwitchLinc switches!

[drozwood90]

I'd say a LOT of the script comments by Techno are based on using OLDER "simple" scripts. The newer ones you can force them to run only single instance, or parallel...which essentially eliminates the "collisions".

If you use a slightly more complicated .NET scripts, you can do just about anything. Make it as complex or simple as you want. I have a script that runs my entire house. It's over 5000 lines. I also have scripts that log into websites, telnets, does just about anything you can do with VB.NET.

Simple VB scripts...are just that. Something quick to test a quick concept.

Also, I state the scripts are slightly more complicated. Once you get one under your belt, just use it as a template and you will just have to copy/paste edit a few lines.

HS also has what my wife and I call "pull-down" code. It is VERY simple point and click "coding" to make events. I tend to get lost in those...so I just use events to call my scripts. They are apparently easy to use for non-programmer oriented people. I think I over think them (I write design hardware, VHDL, ASM, C, C++ for a living).

I personally like that it's VB, as I can do it in my spare time without much work (VB is pretty simple to begin with). Also, since I have created my own library of "functions", when I code, it's almost like pseudo code. It makes it really easy (for me) to go in there and write the code.

for instance:

checkLamp(parm as object)

if(hs.isON(myLamp)) then
  if(timeOnIsGreaterThan(myLamp,5)) then
    hs.execX10(myLamp,"OFF")
  end if
end if

end sub

Since I would have setup the "myLamp" to be equal to the device code, this will actually run on my server. Without my describing it, I bet even if you don't know what the code is, you can tell what it is doing (almost pseudo code). I took the complicated VB time calculation and made it a simple function that returns true or false.

This could be called with an event set with a condition of "while myLamp is on". Then, once a minute HS will call this script. After the 5 minute mark, this will run and turn the light back off.

I have some other code posted somewhere on this board where I have some complicated things that I do...things like "slow-double tap", where a second action can be executed. For instance, I have theater lighting, but no switches for those lights. If you have the main light on in the entertainment room, slow tap ON, homeseer will turn ON the theater lights and turn OFF the main light. Then, as you play / pause / stop movies, HS will adjust the theater lighting as necessary (assuming you leave the main light off).

It is all very simple stuff, but a lot of it, which gives me such complicated capabilities.

I also agree that the community here is pretty darned good. 9/10 times, if you are stuck, post, someone will be able to help, or at least be a good sounding board to help you come to the conclusion you want (the 1/10 times).

PLUS, you've got the Rupp-Bot. 99/100 times he comments on your post before you can hit submit!

--Dan

[macromark]

Well ya OK... I'm a little biased.

HomeSeer supports more technologies and has more plug-ins or interface drivers than any other software of this type. It's not necessary to know a formal language to program the system (most users don't, including me) but for those who wish to "supercharge" things, you can use javascript, perlscript, vbscript, vb.NET and python... many more choices than most give you.

Our webserver is built-in and of our own design. It allows the system to be accessed remotely without the need for a 3rd party "hosted" server or complex commercial webservers (like IIS). There are no fees required for remote access, save for an optional DDNS service available from within the program (MyHomeSeer-Connect).

If you're a smartphone or tablet PC user and wish to control your home with one of these, HSTouch clients are available for the following platforms: Windows, WinCE, Android, IOS (iPhone, iPad, iPod/Touch) and Linux. HSTouch is a fully customizable interface system for use with HS2 (as an option) or HSPRO (included).

HomeSeer has supported Z-Wave since 2003 (longer than any other software company) and we support the latest technologies (beaming, encryption) for use with door locks, thermostats and other devices.

HomeSeer commuinity support is also significantly better than that you'll find for other products. Out users are very active (and vocal!) and you'll always have company on the board when you post. As I write this, there are 154 people on the board. Check our competitors message boards and see how many people are on them... most just have a small handful of users and guests.

Like Rupp said earlier in this thread, download a copy of the program and give it a whirl. That will give you the best feel for whether or not HomeSeer is for you.

[Xiphoid]

It's best you make your own decision as you know most of us are going to recommend HomeSeer. I would recommend downloading the free 30 day trial of HomeSeer and give it a test drive.
Do you know what you are wanting to accomplish? Which lighting protocol you want to use? Are you looking to interface with an alarm? etc.

Well so far I seem to be leaning towards UPB because of the suggested stability (compared to zwave and others) for lighting (but don't like the cost of UPB). The primary reason for investigating HA was the ability to control my lighting with scene buttons...but once i looked into it i was excited with all the other features. I will want to interface with my alarm, but haven't investigated how that would work yet. My alarm is only 1 year old but I don't know the manufacturer. I'd love to integrate my hvac one day, interface with my SageTV and my Sonos system. The possibilities are endless.

[Rupp]

Well so far I seem to be leaning towards UPB because of the suggested stability (compared to zwave and others) for lighting (but don't like the cost of UPB). The primary reason for investigating HA was the ability to control my lighting with scene buttons...but once i looked into it i was excited with all the other features. I will want to interface with my alarm, but haven't investigated how that would work yet. My alarm is only 1 year old but I don't know the manufacturer. I'd love to integrate my hvac one day, interface with my SageTV and my Sonos system. The possibilities are endless.

The good thing is there are plugins/scripts for Sonos, many thermostats, and I believe there's even one for SageTV integration.

[Pete]

I've used Homeseer now for over 10 years or so. I started to "play" with home automation specifically X10 in the late 1970's.

In the 80's I tested a combo alarm panel which had TTS (begining pieces ofX10 integration) and about 32 zones .....

I currently have a bit of a sandbox in the house using X10, Insteon, UPB and Z-Wave, pushing (not) Homeseer a bit with 16 serial devices plus some USB and networked devices and it does well for me.

I'm a happy camper today with Homeseer; personally I don't think there is any competition out there that does what Homeseer does today.

[stevea]

I've used a couple of other HA packages back in the early 90's, but am not aware of the ones that might be real competition for Homeseer. I'm pretty "pregnant" with Homeseer at this point, and generally recommend it to people. There are two things that I try and make sure people understand when they go with Homeseer, just to manage their expectations:

1. It's a hobby. Nothing more. Don't think you are going to just automate stuff and let it go forever. It seems like it takes lots of care and feeding to keep things going. That's not a dig on HS, but seems to be the case and always will be.
2. Just because a plug-in is on the Homeseer updater, don't for a minute think that the Homeseer company endorses, stands by, or even has ever tried to use it. There is no threshold that someone has to pass to get their stuff in the updater, as long as Homeseer gets their fee on the sales. Even long after the plug-in author is no longer supporting it, sales will continue. Caveat emptor.

Steve

[macromark]

There is no threshold that someone has to pass to get their stuff in the updater, as long as Homeseer gets their fee on the sales. Even long after the plug-in author is no longer supporting it, sales will continue. Caveat emptor.
Steve

Eventually, we'd like to establish a certification program for plug-ins to ensure a more uniform level of quality for the ones we sell (both inhouse and 3rd party ones). In the meantime, every plug-in is available as a trial for 30 days and we highly recommend that anyone considering a purchase take the time to test before they buy.

[Xiphoid]

I've used a couple of other HA packages back in the early 90's, but am not aware of the ones that might be real competition for Homeseer. I'm pretty "pregnant" with Homeseer at this point, and generally recommend it to people. There are two things that I try and make sure people understand when they go with Homeseer, just to manage their expectations:

1. It's a hobby. Nothing more. Don't think you are going to just automate stuff and let it go forever. It seems like it takes lots of care and feeding to keep things going. That's not a dig on HS, but seems to be the case and always will be.
2. Just because a plug-in is on the Homeseer updater, don't for a minute think that the Homeseer company endorses, stands by, or even has ever tried to use it. There is no threshold that someone has to pass to get their stuff in the updater, as long as Homeseer gets their fee on the sales. Even long after the plug-in author is no longer supporting it, sales will continue. Caveat emptor.

Steve

Well I don't mind it being a hobby, but maybe you could give me an idea of what care and feeding I'd be in for? I'd love it if after I set something up, that it just runs well so that I can continue to add to it, rather than pen inordinate amounts of time doing maintenance. For example, I'm strongly considering UPB for the sheer fact that it is more reliable than zwave. I don't want to have to be troubleshooting lights that don't respond all the time....that would make my Homeseer hobby get a high WAF.

Would love to hear everyone's experience...

[stevea]

Well I don't mind it being a hobby, but maybe you could give me an idea of what care and feeding I'd be in for? I'd love it if after I set something up, that it just runs well so that I can continue to add to it, rather than pen inordinate amounts of time doing maintenance. For example, I'm strongly considering UPB for the sheer fact that it is more reliable than zwave. I don't want to have to be troubleshooting lights that don't respond all the time....that would make my Homeseer hobby get a high WAF.

Would love to hear everyone's experience...

Well, you've probably hit the nail on the head for the main thing requiring periodic attention. I've never used UPB, but my friend Ian (CompletelyHis here on the board) is always making fun of me when I'm telling him about my Z-wave issues.

For me, Z-wave is incredibily fast (probably not faster than UPB though). I thought one of the appeals was that it was a standard, and that multiple vendors are available within that standard. However, it isn't really a standard, or so it seems. Experience has been that nearly every new product somehow extends the standard. Since Z-wave is built into HS and is not a plug-in, it means we have to wait for another version of HS to use them. Periodically one of my Z-wave nodes goes somewhat dead, and I either have to reset my Z-troller (works some of the time), or reset the breaker the node is on (works some of the time), or replace the device. I mentioned that I'm pregnant with HS. Well, I'm pretty pregnant with Z-wave too. I've got about 40 nodes now, and I have no interest (or finances) to go another way. If I did, I'd probably go UPB. It's pretty obvious that from a business standpoint Homeseer Tech has gone all in on Z-wave.

Other issues that end up requing attention are probably just because this is a pretty complicated system, made more so by lots of different plug-ins of varying pedigree from varying people (per my original post). Things sometimes just stop, and it isn't clear why. The HS current architecture means that if a plug-in aborts it brings down all of HS (apparently something they intend to change in HS3). A reboot generally gets things back to normal again. My newest server build (Gigabyte Intel i5, 4GB Mem, and Win7 Home Premium) with HS Pro 2.5.0.20 seems to be the most stable I've had in quite a while. I've had it running sometimes for as long as four weeks without having to restart it. It hasn't always been so.

Steve

[Uncle Michael]

It's not so much the stuff that you set up and let run, although that will occasionally need attention. In my experience there are two primary reasons that HS requires intervention.

1) I make changes that have unintended consequences. Often that is because I don't really know what I'm doing, but it also is a function of the amount of interaction that can exist among components. This is probably the biggest cause of problems in my system because HS is just too beguiling to leave it alone. There is always some new function to try or just a new event to introduce to make the system 'better'.

2) I 'upgrade' something. It could be a MS update, a new OS, a new HS computer, a new plug-in version (HSTouch comes to mind), or a new HS version. At the very least, the things that have deliberately been changed usually invite, and sometimes require, further changes. Occasionally, there is a complete surprise, and something that seems completely unrelated to the upgrade no longer works the way it did. That can either lead to long hours of trouble shooting, or reversion to the previous state (Remember to back up you HS directory regularly.), or both.

[Rupp]

I haven't changed anything in HomeSeer or the server in months. It just purrs along. I use a combination of Z-Wave, UPB, Insteon, and X10 and it all works great. It depends on how much you want to tinker. If you are going to just do lighting , security, the proven technologies it's straight forward and easy.

[macromark]

When I'm "allowed" to leave my system alone, it just runs. I have 83 devices of which 25 are Z-Wave nodes. As it is, we're usually the "guinea pigs" for updates, so it's hard to log a lot of uptime. Still, I'm at 3 weeks now and it just purrs along. Here's a copy/paste of a moment ago from my "About" screen:

System Uptime:21 Days 0 Hours 0 Minutes 2 Seconds