Need a Zwave switch to control 12v circuit

[prsmith777]

Im putting some low voltage lights outside on the patio. I want to be able to have several different 12v circuits I can control with wall switches. Will the Cooper RF9501 control a 12v circuit?

I have used the equivalent of the evolve lfm-20 with variable results. I had trouble putting more than one side by side---somehow they would interact and not play well unless they were apart by several feet. I would also rather have direct control with a switch.

If the cooper switch doesnt work, any suggestions for a zwave switch that can directly control a 12v circuit from a transformer for lighting?

[Person]

Cooper 9501 provides at the output 110V AC that you put on the input (it is hardwired internally). You could try to see if it will run on 12V AC but I seriously doubt. I found that LFM 20 will run on about 22VAC (z-wave electronics itself so you can control it) but the output relay (blue wires) will NOT switch - needs more voltage.

If you need multiple output control then you might look at IP/WiFi/serial to contact-closure solution:

http://store.homeseer.com/store/Cont...lays-C178.aspx

As alternative you can try multiple ZFM-80. Similar to LFM in functionality but it looks like a switch and has round button for ON/OFF and blue LED for status, it goes into standard electrical box (it is Decora style), supports associations/intant status with HomeSeer (I tested and confirmed this). You should be able to put multiple of them into multi-ganged box.

Only negative is that it is recessed in the electrical box - not sure why they did that so it doesnt fill in the hole in the cover plate. It floats just below it.

[prsmith777]

http://www.zwaveproducts.com/layout/...s/ZFM-80US.pdf

The manual for the zfm-80 shows that they use an external switch to control the unit and that there is a cover for the unit on the wall. Probably a good thing cause that button is pretty unappealing. I guess I could mount the units elsewhere and get some non zwave decora switches to control the unit. Im hoping that the external switch will trigger status change in homeseer, or it would be useless to me. The LFM states an external switch can be used as well but searching the internet has shown some questions on getting this working. ZFm-80 may be my best option.

Thanks

[Person]

Did not notice that cover thing - my package just came with ZFM and nothing else. It is barely big to fit the switch. So maybe that is something you need to get yourself.

The face/round switch is not that bad and you also have blue LED to indicate ON/OFF.

I can confirm that either using round button on the switch or using external switch works with homeseer. It supports associations/instant status unlike LFM. The association needs to be enabled manually - HS didn't set it up automatically but once I did that it works (I also tried to do association for LFM manually and there is no such option).

You can also set external switch to be rocker or momentary *and* choose between N/O and N/C. I tested that as well. Pretty amazing little device.

[Steve Q]

I use an outdoor GE Z-wave module ( 45604 ) and have my low voltage lighting transformer plugged into it. Works great; no additional wiring required.

You can also use a relay with a 120v coil (Radio Shack catalog #55048258). Connect the coil to any 120v z-wave switch. Connect the contacts to your 12V circuit.

Steve Q

[Kevin L]

Similar to Steve, I use HomeManageable z-wave lamp modules inside the stainless housing for my LV lighting transformer. I have them turn on at 65% power every night. They've worked perfectly. Prior to this, I used X-10 lamp modules the same way.

Kevin

[Person]

I also use 45604 and it works good.

But if you have single 12V transformer and want to split output into multiple zones then using LFM/ZFM is the easiest way to go. I think this is what prsmith777 is trying to achieve. Alternatively purchase one 12V transformer for each zone + one 45604...

[prsmith777]

Yes, I am trying to achieve 6 different controllable circuits on one transformer, so I need to switch the 12v leads coming off the transformer. Otherwise, yes the appliance module would work and in fact I have that setup for a single transformer controlling lights in the fountain.

I bought one of the zfm-80s to see how they will do. I was wondering if there might be a way to mount them a little offset from the gangbox so they would mount flush to a decora cover. Maybe use an offset nut on the screw? That way I can just put them straight in the wall in the patio.

[Person]

I looked at that. Mounting brackets are L shaped and they used screws to attach to the body. This is good news. Bad news is that they are flush with the top of the switch and there is no give. You could drill new pair of holes in the brackets to lower them.

Then second problem comes in - body of the switch is just a tad wider than decora opening (same problem w/ LFM but ZFM has smaller difference wrt opening). So you need to make the opening a bit wider. I did this for LFM - I bought "virtually unbreakable" nylon wall plate and cut it with sharp knife. Regular wall plates are too brittle/crack if you try to cut them.

Let me know if you figure out a better way...

[prsmith777]

Update:

I drilled two holes on each bracket and moved the bracket down 1/4".

I sanded the switchplate with a Dremel tool to allow for the slightly larger switch.

All in all not too bad of a look and its going outside in an outdoor kitchen area so the rough edges probably wont be noticed too much.

I ended up with five 12V circuits.

[Person]

Nice job indeed :-) ...

if I knew about this device before I would use it just like you for my garage door switch instead of LFM ... and as a garage door sensor with magnetic contact. You don't need batteries and is easily powered with 110 ...

[Olbrit]

I can confirm that either using round button on the switch or using external switch works with homeseer. It supports associations/instant status unlike LFM. The association needs to be enabled manually - HS didn't set it up automatically but once I did that it works (I also tried to do association for LFM manually and there is no such option).

You can also set external switch to be rocker or momentary *and* choose between N/O and N/C. I tested that as well. Pretty amazing little device.

...if I knew about this device before I would use it just like you for my garage door switch instead of LFM ... and as a garage door sensor with magnetic contact. You don't need batteries and is easily powered with 110 ...

Hi Person, I'm thinking the same way about replacing my existing garage doors battery sensors with the ZFM and magnets/reeds, so that they are permanently powered, more reliable and act as routers, thus improving my mesh at the same time. A couple of questions though:

1. The way I understand instant status is that if Remotec doesn't pay Lutron for licensing then the ZFM won't have instant status even though it does support associations. From what I read elsewhere, manufacturers who did not license the patent can still support the association class, but don't have the ability for the device to have any associated devices when it is turned on/off locally. So are you able to kindly confirm that if the button on the ZFM is pressed manually that its status change is immediately reported on the HS status screen and shows in the log, or does it need polling to get the status after a manual press? That'll confirm if it has instant status or not.

2. For a different project I'm looking at using a regular non-Z-Wave outside switch connected to the ZFM switch terminals, but I'm confused if this external switch is set for instance to off, if I can still control the ZFM to switch its relay back on while the external switch is still off?

Many thanks for your insight.

[Person]

Hi Olbrit,

I don't know about licensing but what I know is that I have ZFM80 at home and I tested it thoroughly. I also tested Aeon mini-switch (see post 26 here http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=154422).

1. Once you set association (HS doesn't do it automatically) ZFM (and Aeon) work just like you would expect - toggling it locally using round button or external switch (I used paper clip to test ) reports status back instantly. There is no need for any polling. I can click/short the switch and <1 second later my Android/iOS/Win7 HSTouch screens update. Just like Cooper switches I have.


2. Yes you can. You basically create "3-way" circuit with external switch and z-wave command being two different ways to turn on/off (and local button is third way to control it). When using z-wave the position of external switch is irrelevant - z-wave commands win. The position of the switch is "permanent" (e.g. UP OFF, DN ON) but it can be overridden thru z-wave. So if you left switch in DN/ON and used z-wave to turn OFF the light the light will be OFF. To turn it on you will need to turn OFF the switch and then turn back ON. This is not same as 3way where switch toggles state but it works.

Aeon micro switch behaves exactly as a 3way circuit. The external switch is toggle, not fixed position. Any time you toggle it, it will change light state. It also supports toggle or momentary external switch.

For ZFM you can also set external switch to be rocker or momentary *and* choose between N/O and N/C by changing value of parameter 1 (values to set are listed in the user manual you get w/ it). I tested that as well and it works.


So you have 2 good choices that both fully support instant status - ZFM which is larger and meant to mount into a single gang of an electrical box or Aeon that is smaller and you should be able to hide it inside existing box (it will be tight but possible). Another key difference is 3-way behavior for external switch.


For garage door magnet I used this one - design for that purpose and easy to mount:

http://www.grisk.com/commercial/4700-a.html

GRISK make multiple styles of industrial strength reed switches so you should be able to find what you need ...




Hope this helps ...

[Olbrit]

Hi Person, great response, thank you very much!

1. That's perfect, I want instant status like my Coopers/Levitons and you have confirmed that.

2. Thanks for explaining how the ZFM Z-Wave control overrides the external regular switch, I didn't understand that from the manual. Also, I hadn't thought about the Aeon Micro switch option, so I'll take some time and read about both in more detail. (I want to replace a CA3750 240VAC pool pump contactor module with a different Z-Wave solution that plays better in my mesh as it's located a long way from the Controller and the CA3750 just won't stay connected).

[Person]

Hi Olbrit,

if you are trying to address network reach, you can simply add some more nodes in between. A new switch or outlet. Then optimize the network starting from new switch and then CA3750 so that it takes advantage of intermediate switch. I had problem w/ my garage door sensor until I brought it next to z-troller, fully optimized, moved to middle of the house, fully optimized and then finally moved to its final location and fully optimized again. Now it is taking advantage of all the intermediate nodes I added. It was added originally where I only had few nodes and it was talking (poorly) directly to my z-troller and thermostat only and not picking up new nodes. So when I tried to optimize it in place, the optimization always failed even though I could get messages from it and could rescan it.