Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Roof Icing vs gutter roof Deicing heating cables

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Roof Icing vs gutter roof Deicing heating cables

    I recently installed Electrical Heating cable on the roof to prevent Ice forming and damming up. I installed an Insteon On/Off Switch 2466SW to allow control of the event.


    Click image for larger version

Name:	Roof Heater2.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	23.0 KB
ID:	1210321

    I'm interested to see how others setup the event to control the heating cable. I had thought to use outdoor temperature < 32F and precipitation ie snow/ice. While the temperature is a reliable variable the change of snow seem like an unreliable variable to setup the event... I just purchased the UltraweatherWU3 plugin to get outdoor variables.

    If you have any event you have setup I would appreciate your thoughts.


    Click image for larger version

Name:	Roof Heater1.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	40.9 KB
ID:	1210320



    Many thanks

    Devoir
    Last edited by devoir; December 23, 2016, 06:56 PM. Reason: updating info

    #2
    Can't find this post

    I just tried searching for this Post using Roof or Ice and it can't be found. Nor can I search it under my name....

    It only show up under New Post.

    Can an admin let me know what I did wrong? is it the Level inside the forum I posted?

    Devoir

    Comment


      #3
      Roof Icing vs gutter roof Deicing heating cables

      For many years, I used x10 modules to control my roof/guttering deicing cables. However, I have not installed the deicing cables for the past 2 winters. I did not really need them.

      Here is the control scheme I used:
      - if it is 11:00 AM and if the temperature is above 20 degrees F but less than 35 degrees, turn on the cables.
      - turn off cables at 5PM
      - I did not run the cables during the night.

      This approach worked well for me.

      Steve Q


      Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
      HomeSeer Version: HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.368, Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 - Home, Number of Devices: 373, Number of Events: 666, Enabled Plug-Ins
      2.0.83.0: BLRF, 2.0.10.0: BLUSBUIRT, 3.0.0.75: HSTouch Server, 3.0.0.58: mcsXap, 3.0.0.11: NetCAM, 3.0.0.36: X10, 3.0.1.25: Z-Wave,Alexa,HomeKit

      Comment


        #4
        There are sensors purpose built for this kind of thing. They are used for snow melting on driveways. Maybe you could connect such a gadget to HS somehow?
        Originally posted by rprade
        There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

        Comment


          #5
          In my experience ice melt cable is something that is easy to over control. There is significant time lag in raising the temperature of the roof and gutters. Most ice melt cable also has built in temperature control. The cable conductivity changes with the cable temperature, so as the cable warms, the current is reduced.

          After considerable experimentation - and some expensive failures, I think it is best to simply turn on the cables when the temperature is between 25 and 35 degrees and it's either snowing heavily or heavy snow is imminent. If it's snowing and the temperature is lower than 25, but likely to rise, or if he it's above 35 but likely to fall, I turn on the cables. Melting the snow as it falls is much easier and faster than overcoming a preformed ice dam!

          Using that strategy, I've had no instances where the total time the cables needed to be on exceeded 48 hours at a stretch. In fact, needing the cables for more than 12 hours is pretty rare. (When I ran the cables reactively, after the ice dams had formed, the on time could be much longer - up to a week - and water leaks often happened anyway. )

          Depending on how much cabling you have, the cost may be a few dollars for one cable run for 12 hours to $15 or $20 for several long cable runs over 48 hours. That's not trivial, but far less than the cost to repair water damage from an ice dam, and low enough and infrequent enough that automating it seems more difficult than I can justify, especially given how difficult it is to predict just when to turn the cables on and off.

          I do, however, monitor the current on that circuit, and display an obvious reminder when the cables are on. It's not something I want to forget to turn off. Also, there is a high and low temperature cutoff, so the cable power is off unless the ambient temperature is in the proper range.
          Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
          HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

          HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

          Comment


            #6
            DeIcing Event

            Steve & Uncle Michael

            Many thanks for the suggestion... I added a counter to see how many times this event triggers on..

            I pulled temperature from the WeatherUnderground Plug-In



            Click image for larger version

Name:	Roof Heater3.png
Views:	1
Size:	55.0 KB
ID:	1188236




            Devoir

            Comment


              #7
              Ice Melt Monitoring Current

              Uncle Michael what are you using for current sensor??? Which system did you install?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by devoir View Post
                Uncle Michael what are you using for current sensor??? Which system did you install?
                I use the UltraECM plug-in and Brultech monitor. Currently an ECM-1240, but plan to install a GEM this winter for more granularity.
                Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks Al Gore

                  Well this was certainly an unfortunate winter to test the roof heating system......

                  What am I saying we had one (1) snow day , no ice, not bad weather.... While I had hoped to see how my program worked ......

                  We didn't have any days where this was needed... ugggg....

                  I guess I'll take it off the roof in April....

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by devoir View Post
                    Well this was certainly an unfortunate winter to test the roof heating system......
                    We didn't have any days where this was needed... ugggg....
                    Same here. But I'm the opposite of disappointed. If installing a roof deicing cable is all it takes to eliminate the need for one, then that's even better than having it melt the ice!
                    (I've been signing up for snow plowing contracts and installing winter tires for years in hopes that will lead to gentle winters. Maybe it was ice melting cables I needed all along. Or maybe it was you installing them that was the missing piece. )
                    Unfortunately, there's no way to know what next winter will be like. In this part of the world, I can't even be confident we won't need them in March. . .or even April!
                    Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                    HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                    HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Roof Heater Snow Day

                      Yhea it worked...... while not a very heavy snow day I was please with the way the heating wire and control worked....


                      Uncle Mike I waited all winter for just one day of snow...... 3 years ago when we bought the house all we had was snow and Ice on the roof causing problems...

                      So an ounce of prevention keeps the snow away



                      Click image for larger version

Name:	Snow Heater.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	78.2 KB
ID:	1190277





                      Devoir

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by devoir View Post
                        Yhea it worked...... while not a very heavy snow day I was please with the way the heating wire and control worked....
                        Excellent. It's a great feeling when it works.

                        My installation wasn't quite as effective as yours at preventing snow. Although we had a very mild January and February, we got hammered with almost two feet on Tuesday and Wednesday last week!
                        Fortunately, my roof heating was up to it. Gutters and roof edge are clear. No ice dams and no icicles. [Sigh of relief.]<sigh of="" relief.=""></sigh>
                        Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                        HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                        HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I just bought 200ft of the cable and see that it comes with a t'stat built in. However, I'm sure it will come on whether there's snow or a bright sunny day.

                          I plan on plugging into a Z-wave outlet so I can manually allow the unit to power up or not. Not sure I want/need to monitor energy consumption since my solar panels are making a more than I consume on a regular basis.

                          I have two GE exterior outlets but they cant monitor energy. Does anyone know of an exterior outlet that monitors energy. I might try the Qubino relay if I can't find an actual outlet.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X