Turn on fan but not if manually stopped?

[wkearney99]

What's the right methodology to use to handle manual overrides?

I'd like to turn on some ceiling fans at night if the outdoor temp rises above a certain temp. The temp might change during the night, so I'd want it to be dynamic.

However, I'd like to have a way to override the automation by manual control. Most likely via the Alexa interface, or with a Lutron button press. But I'd like the override to reset itself come morning time.

How should I structure this in Events?

[Guest]

What's the right methodology to use to handle manual overrides?

I'd like to turn on some ceiling fans at night if the outdoor temp rises above a certain temp. The temp might change during the night, so I'd want it to be dynamic.

However, I'd like to have a way to override the automation by manual control. Most likely via the Alexa interface, or with a Lutron button press. But I'd like the override to reset itself come morning time.

How should I structure this in Events?

I'd look up the motion events by Randy and apply same principles!

[wkearney99]

I'd look up the motion events by Randy and apply same principles!

I've read through a ton of threads here and my head hurts trying to figure it out.

Care to point me to a specific URL?

[randy]

I've read through a ton of threads here and my head hurts trying to figure it out.

Care to point me to a specific URL?

The thread is probably this one.

The concept is simple. You introduce a virtual device into your events such that the virtual device is controlled by automation, but not by manual control. I used these extensively in lighting control so that I could have the system know if it was local or automation that controlled a light. I briefly explained this in post 3 of this thread.

"You can see that each of the level setting events also turn the Dimmer Default virtual device off. This is so we can make local changes after the level is set without the default level overriding our setting.

Then there is an event to reset the Dimmer Default virtual default device when we turn the lights off"

With the new HomeSeer switches and dimmers, it is no longer needed.

If you want to state exactly what you want to do, I could try to post an example.

[wkearney99]

If you want to state exactly what you want to do, I could try to post an example.

I have a device "Master Bedroom Ceiling Fan" controlled via the Lutron Ra2 plug-in. It's voice-enabled such that "Alexa, set Master Bedroom Ceiling Fan to low|high|medium" works nicely. My wife likes this and uses it.

While the room is air conditioned in the summer time, my wife also prefers to have the ceiling fan running "if it's hot outside". Yes, roll your eyes here... I do too. But as anyone that knows about the "Wife Acceptance Factor" it's better to accommodate than to argue.

I also have some Honeywell Thermostats, connected via the plug-in. They have an "Outdoor Temp" device that has the last changed temperature. The plug-in polls on a configurable interval and defaults to not updating the stored value (timestamp) unless the actual temp has changed.

I'd like to have HS check to see if it's between 10pm and sunrise, whether the outside temp has risen above 78F and whether the fan has been manually stopped during that same timeframe. As in, my wife decided she didn't want the fan running and doesn't want to have to yell at Alexa again to stop it, again. Meanwhile, if the fan hasn't been manually stopped, but the temp has dropped below 78F then it should stop the fan. The fan should continue to run if the temp rises (unless manually stopped at any point during the night). There doesn't have to be any speed changes for this, as medium is about the right amount of airflow regardless of temp. Any faster and the breeze has the potential to wake her.

Here's my take on the logic:

If between 10pm and sunrise
If outside temp is or changes to 78F or warmer
Run the fan on medium

Monitor outdoor temp and if it hits 78F or higher
And if the fan was not previously running AND manually disabled via Alexa (between 10pm-sunrise)
Run the fan on medium

I don't check to see if the temp falls below 78F to turn it off. I'm guessing that would raise complaints about the fan going off, rather than praise for energy management. But I'd be willing to integrate a floor value if it didn't otherwise complicate the logic excessively.

The idea is there are some nights where the 10pm temp might not yet be 78F but could climb through that during the overnight hours. Start the fan if it does, unless my wife told it to turn off.

Yes, I know, with AC running this is likely pointless, but this is not a hill worth dying on.

Note, there's no 'stop the fan at sunrise' as that's not necessarily when we'd wake up. We don't set a wake-up time each night nor currently have anything tracking such a thing (no motion sensors or device use patterns to track). It's fine to leave it running. In my experience there's never enough of an outdoor temp rise between sunrise and waking to necessitate starting the fan (again AC is likely already running anyway).

I have a whole house clean-up timeclock event that runs on the Lutron repeater everyday at 9am and turning off the fans is part of that.

I have not yet had my triggers/conditions/virtual devices/events epiphany yet.

[randy]

I see only two events, although I am not clear what the differences in these two criteria are:

"If between 10pm and sunrise
If outside temp is or changes to 78F or warmer
Run the fan on medium

Monitor outdoor temp and if it hits 78F or higher
And if the fan was not previously running AND manually disabled via Alexa (between 10pm-sunrise)
Run the fan on medium"

Here are the Events:



I created a Virtual device "Automatic Fan Override. The virtual device can be controlled by Echo. The first event will turn the fan off if the Virtual Device is turned on. Your clean-up timeclock can turn the virtual device off, or an Echo command can turn it off and the fan will start as soon as the temperature is set above 78 degrees. In my experience, temperature devices are set every few minutes, depending on the device's resolution. You can improve the response by making sure "Do not update device last change time if device value does not change:" is not selected on the temperature device.

You could also add a temperature trigger to the Event to allow the fan to be turned off if the temperature drops. You could also add a time trigger to turn it off at sunrise.



My outside temperature is a OneWire device Air Conditioning AC Ambient. I also have a weather device that gives me outside temperature, but since it is cloud based, I tend to defer to local devices. In the second event, the fan will come on as soon as the temperature is set to above 78, as long as it is after 10:00PM, before sunrise and the automatic fan control is not overridden by the Virtual Device. I used a Condition that the fan is not already at medium, but it also could be that the fan is Off. That condition will prevent the event from triggering every time the temperature changes, once it has run. Using a condition that the fan is at medium, allows you to override the events by setting it on high or low.

[Uncle Michael]

I think I'd use a virtual device that gets turned on if the fan is turned off using Alexa. I'd then make that a condition on any event that turns the fan on automatically. If the device is on, don't turn on the fan (because it was already on and turned off manually). I'd also turn the device off any time the fan is turned on using Alexa, and in your clean-up event.

[Kerat]

Give me a sec I will take some screen shots of my setup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wkearney99]

I created a Virtual device "Automatic Fan Override. The virtual device can be controlled by Echo.

Can you clarify this?

Right now I have a device called "Master Bedroom Fan" and it's the Lutron fan control device. I can voice control this via "Alexa, set Master Bedroom Fan to low|medium|high|off".

What does your virtual device "Automatic Fan Override" look like, and how does Alexa control it? I'm unclear if you mean it gets it's own voice control, or whether it's somehow linked to the actual fan control device.

I'm following you on all the other points, THANKS!

[randy]

Can you clarify this?

Right now I have a device called "Master Bedroom Fan" and it's the Lutron fan control device. I can voice control this via "Alexa, set Master Bedroom Fan to low|medium|high|off".

What does your virtual device "Automatic Fan Override" look like, and how does Alexa control it? I'm unclear if you mean it gets it's own voice control, or whether it's somehow linked to the actual fan control device.

I'm following you on all the other points, THANKS!

It is a separate Virtual Device, not connected in any way to the physical device. It would be voice enabled.

You would say "Alexa! Tell HomeSeer to turn Automatic Fan Override Off". When you do that the event would turn the fan On if the temperature was above 78 degrees and if it was between 10:00PM and sunrise.

If you say "Alexa! Tell HomeSeer to turn Automatic Fan Override On", the fan would turn Off if it was running, no matter the time or temperature.

You could still control the physical device with Echo. You might want to use a condition that the fan is equal to Off instead of Medium so that the event would not change the speed if it was Off or at a speed other than Medium, or a condition that the fan is less than Medium, allowing the event to leave it on High if it was already on High, or bump it to Medium if it is Off or Low. You could choose whatever naming for the Virtual and physical devices works best as far as voice control is concerned.

[Kerat]

[wkearney99]

It is a separate Virtual Device, not connected in any way to the physical device. It would be voice enabled.

You would say "Alexa! Tell HomeSeer to turn Automatic Fan Override Off".

Ok, that's what I had suspected. Realizing, of course, this means the wife would have to learn a different command for the fan, to be used only during sleep. Which is kind of a non-starter. It's tricky enough finding sensible names for devices, ones that aren't a mouthful to use every time (let alone remember).

So let me ask, might there be a way to automatically set this if the regular "Alexa, set Master Bedroom Fan..." device was set to off? As in, follow the state of it, and if it changes during the off-hours interval, set your virtual device? That the temp event would then be able to use?

[randy]

I'll have to give it some thought. You can also rename both devices such that the name of the virtual device is the same as what she used for the fan. You could even add two more events and make the virtual device Off, Low, Med, High and allow it to control the fan speed as well. Then she could use the same command as she uses currently with a layer of automation controlling the actual fan.

To explore further what you want to happen, answer these.

If the fan has already been turned on by voice command, what do you want to happen after 10:00 and before sunrise if it is above 78 degrees?

What if the fan is Off between 10:00 and sunrise if it is above 78 degrees?

What does the fan do if voice command turns it off after 10:00 and before sunrise and it is above 78 degrees?

[BeenHeavyinFlorida]

It is a separate Virtual Device, not connected in any way to the physical device. It would be voice enabled.

You would say "Alexa! Tell HomeSeer to turn Automatic Fan Override Off". When you do that the event would turn the fan On if the temperature was above 78 degrees and if it was between 10:00PM and sunrise.

If you say "Alexa! Tell HomeSeer to turn Automatic Fan Override On", the fan would turn Off if it was running, no matter the time or temperature.

You could still control the physical device with Echo. You might want to use a condition that the fan is equal to Off instead of Medium so that the event would not change the speed if it was Off or at a speed other than Medium, or a condition that the fan is less than Medium, allowing the event to leave it on High if it was already on High, or bump it to Medium if it is Off or Low. You could choose whatever naming for the Virtual and physical devices works best as far as voice control is concerned.

For equipment like a fan, I layer the control. There is a Fan on/off and a Fan Auto On/Off. The auto logic event controls the Fan Auto point based on time or occupancy or motion. The Fan point on/off event causes the fan to follow the auto point unless it is overridden. In the fan event I set a time for the manual override to expire. If the fan is has been manually turned on or off for a desired time, the auto point can control it, otherwise it stays in its current overridden state. This way after an interval, the device follows the auto control.