GE (Jasco) Switch Issue

[scottay]

I'm a new HomeSeer user. Love the product thus far! I've been a Vera user for ~3yrs. I have a pretty small environment at this point, 2 switches, 2 dimmers, thermostat and a receptical. I've been able to include everything into my new homeseer without issue except a GE (Jasco) wall switch. I have 2 of these, one functions flawlessly, the other includes but isn't working right.

From HomeSeer the switch responds when I turn it on/off instantly; however, if I use the switch it can take 5 minutes for it to respond. I've excluded it and included it. I've excluded it, reset the interface, restarted HomeSeer, then included it. I've optimized the network. Nothing seems to make it work properly. It was working in Vera just fine. I'm using Z-stick as an interface.

This is the message that appears in the log:
Product Information did not identify a polling interval to be set for Z-Wave Node 18 Z-Wave Interface Jasco Switch Binary Node 18 and it does not appear to be associated with the interface Z-Stick.

[Rupp]

When you say " if I use the switch it can take 5 minutes for it to respond" what exactly do you mean? It take 5 minutes for the light to come on or it takes 5 minutes for the status to update? Most Z-Wave devices do no support instant status and the status will only update based on the polling interval set on the root device of the switch. Some companies are doing some coding behind the scenes to get devices to show instant status HS3 doesn't do this for most devices.

[scottay]

Thanks for the reply. Sorry for the delay, I didn't notice that the moderators approved the message, and it didn't subscribe me so I didn't get notified.

Yes, it takes a very long time for the switch to activate in the Homeseer panel, which then triggers the event. I hit the light switch while testing, gave up, went upstairs, then a while later noticed the lights on downstairs. Another time I hit the switch and went on a walk, they were on when I got back. I'm sure that's based on the polling interval.

I doubt this is by design, the other switch I have is the exact same switch and it reacts instantly. I turn it on, Homeseer's status for the switch changes immediately.

[randy]

Thanks for the reply. Sorry for the delay, I didn't notice that the moderators approved the message, and it didn't subscribe me so I didn't get notified.

Yes, it takes a very long time for the switch to activate in the Homeseer panel, which then triggers the event. I hit the light switch while testing, gave up, went upstairs, then a while later noticed the lights on downstairs. Another time I hit the switch and went on a walk, they were on when I got back. I'm sure that's based on the polling interval.

I doubt this is by design, the other switch I have is the exact same switch and it reacts instantly. I turn it on, Homeseer's status for the switch changes immediately.

HomeSeer has a workaround that supports a pseudo instant status on all of my Jasco devices. Jasco doesn't natively support instant status. My guess is that you might have a bad switch. I would try excluding it, which should also reset it, then including it again, followed by a rescan and a couple of optimize passes.

Also of note make sure it is identified as a Jasco device and not a Sigma generic binary controller. If it does not scan properly, it will be the generic device.

Last two things, Jasco 3-way installations will only provide proper update status when operated at the master, the slave will not. On my 3-way switches that are part of an event, I poll them frequently. The second thing is that Jasco dimmers will not properly report the dim level because they ramp up and the report is made prior to their completing the ramp. You can work around that with an event, or it will be corrected at the next polling interval.

[mikedr]

There's another person having similar issues as you --

http://board.homeseer.com/showthread...08#post1169008

[scottay]

Looked through that post, might try to position the Z-stick vertically and see what happens.

This is seriously annoying. I switched to HomeSeer because it is infinitely more configurable than my Vera, but if the most basic functions don't work what's the point? I know it's not a bad switch, I've unpaired everything, re-setup the Vera and everything works precisely as it's suppose to. Status is relayed properly whether controlled from the software or the device itself. The thermostat also reports the proper setpoint whether controlled from the device or the software.

I think this problem goes way deeper than the one switch. When I have everything setup and paired on a fresh Z-stick import, the only thing that works is one of the wall switches. I even pulled the switch out of the electrical box (it's plastic, not metal). I can control everything beautifully from HomeSeer, but if I manually manipulate any device the only thing that reports back is the one switch that's closest to the system.

A little more detail about my setup:
I have a small town home. It's 2 stories, with one bedroom above the garage. There is another bedroom next to the staircase. The kitchen is below that second bedroom. Then there is a spacious front room with vaulted ceilings. I have the computer with the Z-stick in the main bedroom in the corner next to all my A/V equipment. Close by is a Linear dimmer (purchased because one of my Intermatic dimmers died). Across the room (~10') is a GE/Jasco wall switch. Across the wall from that is a GE receptical. In the second bedroom (~20') is in Intermatic dimmer). Downstairs in the front room by the front door (~15') is the second GE/Jasco switch. In the kitchen directly below the second bedroom is a Radio Thermostat.

Everything except the Linear dimmer was purchased at Lowes about a year ago. Everything has been working pretty well. The only exception was the bedroom wall switch that I tried to do some "sophisticated" programming on. It would have delay issues and not work as intended, but I suspect a logic issue somewhere because when I went back to simple scene controls it worked fine.

I hope this helps us get to the bottom of what's going on. In the meantime I'll mess around with a few things. I just find it suspicious that the Vera is having zero issues, while HomeSeer is barely functioning. Has to be something simple, possible with the Z-stick. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[mikedr]

I would definitely contact tech support by phone -- it appears that something is not being handled properly with the Jasco/GE no-neutral switches.

With respect to the flickering -- did you have those issues with Vera?

[scottay]

I'll call tomorrow. I submitted a ticket Friday but I think they were closed for the weekend.

I didn't notice any flickering in Vera, but I'm not using any GE dimmers. I do notice a little flicker out of my new Linear dimmer on my track lighting with 2 8W LED track heads. I didn't notice that with the Intermatic dimmers, but I don't think there's a correlation. I replaced the Intermatic at the same time I set the HomeSeer system up because that dimmer had been giving me fits for a while and would not pair with HomeSeer.

These switches are the On/Off model, I from what I understand, they DO require a neutral. I don't think the dimmers do for some reason, but everything I've read indicates that the On/Off model does.

As an update, I stuck my Z-stick on a 6ft USB extension and taped it so it's vertical. It does not seem to be helping my situation any.

[mikedr]

So, you're getting flickering with Ge On/Off that have neutrals. Hmmm. I have a bunch of these in two houses without the issue, so in theory they should work.

If you are running a non-Zee (although at one house we have a Zee), try updating to the latest Z-Wave plug-in (it will be a Beta -- you have to click the third party plug ins, and go all the way to the bottom). I don't think that'll help, but it's one thing to definitely try.

I'm curious to hear your results after talking with tech support on Monday, so please share. I tried a bunch of different types of switches before settling on Ge's, because they are instant status in HomeSeer, and have been solid for me.

[scottay]

No, no flickering on the GE stuff. Sorry for the confusion. The only flickering I'm getting is with a new Linear dimmer. Flickering isn't my issue at the moment, getting all of the devices to show the correct status is my big concern.

One more update: updated the firmware on my Z-stick. No change. Will try the new Z-wave plugin next.

Edit:
Update - Beta Z-wave didn't help.

[mikedr]

No, no flickering on the GE stuff. Sorry for the confusion. The only flickering I'm getting is with a new Linear dimmer. Flickering isn't my issue at the moment, getting all of the devices to show the correct status is my big concern.

One more update: updated the firmware on my Z-stick. No change. Will try the new Z-wave plugin next.

Edit:
Update - Beta Z-wave didn't help.

Oh, ok. Sorry about that. Yes, there is definitely something going on vis-a-vis the GE stuff (at least) and the instant status, because I can attest that it is supported. E.g., if I switch a GE/Jasco switch locally (at the switch itself), within a second or two the status changes in Homeseer.

The only issue I've had in that department is I do have a GE secondary controller, which controls a couple of the switches, and if the switches are controlled via the controller, there is no instant status. I set up polling at 1 minute and a handful of seconds of these two switches to get around that.

Hopefully tech support will provide resolution. You've definitely done the usual culprits -- remove/re-add/re-scan/optimize/full optimize.

[scottay]

Sorry to hear about the GE controller issue. I almost bought one of those when I bought my Linear, so I'll be watching the status of that issue for sure. Polling is a good intermediary step, but that doesn't sound like an idea solution to me.

[S-F]

I think I have a clear picture of what's happening here. First of all you will often have flickering when using LED bulbs with switches that aren't made for LED dimming. That isn't only with Z-Wave switches. I see this all the time. Second is that these non instant status switches don't work well in the reporting status department. I used Vera for years and I can attest to this working better in Vera. It's because the polling is more frequent in Vera. It's closer to 4 minutes as I recall. So if the controller doesn't catch the status it needs to wait until the next time the switch is polled. Try decreasing the polling interval.

[mikedr]

Sorry to hear about the GE controller issue. I almost bought one of those when I bought my Linear, so I'll be watching the status of that issue for sure. Polling is a good intermediary step, but that doesn't sound like an idea solution to me.

The GE controller issue unfortunately is not a fixable thing -- I'm pretty happy in any case that HomeSeer provides pseudo-instant status (without polling) for the GE devices, as they're more cost effective than true instant status devices.

[scottay]

Thanks for the reply.

Is this the case for the Thermostat too? After looking into the switch issue, I noticed that only one of my devices is actually working properly. If it was just an intermittent thing I could understand that... But I've been flipping switches on and off all day, and I have yet to have anything except that one switch actually report back. This isn't just "oops, I must have missed that your reported your status to me." This is every single time, one every device (bar 1). At first I thought maybe distance was an issue, but I've got 4 devices in my bedroom, all within 4' of each other. ONLY the switch reports... All the others have to wait for the poll time.

The thermostat is a huge deal to me. If I can't get that to report the correct setpoint it will mess a lot of stuff up, and it makes control from my iPhone useless.

Edit:
My thermostat is too far from the HomeSeer computer to include it, so I was including it from the Z-stick. I know that thermostats, multi-sensors and locks need to be paired through HomeSeer, and it just dawned on my that my thermostat is battery operated. I brought it upstairs and included it through homeseer and all is working properly with the thermostat now. The issue still remains with the dimmers, switches and receptacles, but at least something is working!

Another Edit:
I know the flicker deal isn't related to Z-wave. The Linear dimmer seems to have issues with my LED's, but my Intermatic works great. I just swapped the two, and now the Linear is powering an incandescent floor lamp at it's happy. The Linear is running my LED track lights, and it's happy (as am I, no more flicker).