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HomeSeer Zigbee Plug-in Discussions relating to the Zigbee plug-in

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  #161  
Old October 28th, 2017, 06:30 PM
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Our Z-Wave support is much different than other systems. We interrogate the device you are adding and build the devices based on the device classes supported. This makes the software much more compatible. However, it also does make the UI a mess in many cases. Many devices support the new notification class then also support BASIC SET or BINARY for notifications so that the device works with older controllers. So HS creates 2 devices, when you only need one. To fix this we have been slowly removing the duplicate device as well as renaming devices so they are consistent, and adding specific icons for things like motion/luminance etc. when we know what the device actually supports. Unfortunately, Z-Wave never added identifiers for what a sensor senses, such as motion or door open. But we can look at the manufacturer ID to figure that out.

So while the UI is not totally consistent, at least it works for just about everything you add, even devices we have never tested. I have added many newer devices to other controllers and they did not work at all since most controllers have to add support specifically for the device.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltek View Post
I did mix in a few general device usability issues, ultimately ALL of the gaps can be addressed via methods of device handling in HS3 code.

Regardless if comparing to Vera or Wink or ST... HS3 should be 100x better at all things. Homeseer software is 18 years old, Zwave support is 14 years old. Yet, HS3 is less mature in many ways (maybe most ways) of Device handling then any of those 3. Lets start with an easy ones... treat a Motion sensor or a Door lock or <insert device type here>, the exact same, no matter what the brand. The others do. HS3 simply exposes the ugly underbelly of Zwave values/parameters and requires the user to make everything work as we need and that causes problems too... HS3's competition does it correctly and uniformly thus not requiring the extra work and problems.

As much as I like HS3 - the software feels like its 18 year old code, not like its 18 years mature.
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  #162  
Old October 28th, 2017, 08:48 PM
Ltek Ltek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjh View Post
Our Z-Wave support is much different than other systems. We interrogate the device you are adding and build the devices based on the device classes supported. This makes the software much more compatible. However, it also does make the UI a mess in many cases. Many devices support the new notification class then also support BASIC SET or BINARY for notifications so that the device works with older controllers. So HS creates 2 devices, when you only need one. To fix this we have been slowly removing the duplicate device as well as renaming devices so they are consistent, and adding specific icons for things like motion/luminance etc. when we know what the device actually supports. Unfortunately, Z-Wave never added identifiers for what a sensor senses, such as motion or door open. But we can look at the manufacturer ID to figure that out.

So while the UI is not totally consistent, at least it works for just about everything you add, even devices we have never tested. I have added many newer devices to other controllers and they did not work at all since most controllers have to add support specifically for the device.
For this Zwave device issue the fix is simple conceptually and you will leverage your community to do the work for you as new devices come to market.

Fix:
Create user editable 'Device Patterns / Templates' for each device type. When new device is paired, HS3 looks to see if a template is defined, if it is, it uses that to create the Device(s) in HS3. As new devices come to market anyone can add them to a template.

This will make it on consistent. Such as:

0 is always 'No Motion', 1 is always Motion
... even if the device sends 255 or 7 or 8, HS3 converts it based on the template's definition.
and the same goes for the Child Devices themselves. When some devices define 'Home Security', HS3 coverts that to the child named "Motion" to be consistent with all the other motion devices.

<rant>
With a small amount of effort and the desire so many HS3 gaps/issues, like Zwave handling, could be 100x better.

I understand how the Zwave handling is the way it is but you've had 14 years to implement a method to overcome the challenge.

All your competitors (Wink, ST, Vera, etc) solved for this as a design requirement prior to launch in v1.0

Several things in HS3 are are in the same boat where a litte effort would go a long way

Example: plugin installer requiring manual file copying to install anything not on your HS server
... BTW, Bill Gates called to say the DOS code you are using to do that is now open source ;-)

Example: no built-in method to autostart HS3
... yup, Bill Gates called again to say he built this into the Windows 3.1 SDK

While I make light of the gaps I mention above, it is concerning that they, and numerous others like it, exist at all after 17 years of development.
</rant>
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  #163  
Old October 29th, 2017, 05:14 AM
sooty sooty is offline
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I've been using HS3 with Z-Wave here in the UK since both HS3 and the Z-Wave plug-in were first available in beta form, so I have gained quite a bit of experience in this area over the years.

Whilst I can sympathise with HST's quest in trying to keep up with the constantly moving target that is Z-Wave, I do agree with Ltek's comments about the use of the word "supported".

A better choice of words (for European users at least) may have been:
"The product may be fully or partially supported if you have sufficient time and knowledge to research and test multiple permutations of settings using our somewhat non-user-friendly settings interface as well as removing most of the unnecessary configuration that we set up for you by default."

I really don't know what their (HST's) target user base is for Homeseer but I can't for the life of me imagine that the typical householder without some serious time on their hands is going to have any level of success setting up a working Z-Wave network. I have spent countless hours helping out other UK users who are totally bamboozled when starting out with Z-Wave.

I appreciate that some of the issues around Z-Wave (device bugs etc) are outside of HST's control and Z-Wave is a complex technology but the way in which the user interacts with the software shouldn't be as painful as it is right now.

Quote:
Our Z-Wave support is much different than other systems. We interrogate the device you are adding and build the devices based on the device classes supported.
I assume that interrogating the device doesn't give you a nice list of the parameters that it supports and what they do and this is why the settings section on the Z-Wave tab is a mess in many cases.

Overall, I would say that in its current state, setting up Homeseer with Z-Wave is more of a "professional" task than something to be taken on by an "end user" where perhaps the likes of Vera etc could be deemed more of an "end user friendly" experience.

Paul..
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  #164  
Old November 26th, 2017, 07:43 AM
darkjamzi darkjamzi is offline
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I ordered Zigate, this is a Zigbee USB contrpller which supports ZHA ZLL Zigbee v 3.0 etc etc. It can control Philips Hue, Xiaomi and other brands without the need for extra hubs from those vendors.

Would this plug-in work with the Zigate?
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  #165  
Old November 27th, 2017, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkjamzi View Post
Would this plug-in work with the Zigate?
No.


Instead I would suggest go for a RaspBee on a Raspberry Pi, install deCONZ and use that as a gatewa for JowiHue.
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  #166  
Old May 1st, 2018, 04:20 PM
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Posting an update. Got the login working and can turn a device on/off. Once we get on/off/dim working we will post a plugin to start testing with, should be by tomorrow.

They totally changed the API so this plugin is pretty much a total re-write. We will make sure we don't break any existing events though.
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  #167  
Old May 1st, 2018, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjh View Post
Posting an update. Got the login working and can turn a device on/off. Once we get on/off/dim working we will post a plugin to start testing with, should be by tomorrow.

They totally changed the API so this plugin is pretty much a total re-write. We will make sure we don't break any existing events though.
What what point will ZHA be supported not just ZLL? I would like to do more with Zigbee than just turn on a light bulb.
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  #168  
Old May 1st, 2018, 04:39 PM
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The plugin will support whatever the Lightify unit supports. As for, when will we complete the plugin, hopefully this week. They have some new stuff in the API related to color bulbs that we have to look at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeubanks View Post
What what point will ZHA be supported not just ZLL? I would like to do more with Zigbee than just turn on a light bulb.
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  #169  
Old May 1st, 2018, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeubanks View Post
What what point will ZHA be supported not just ZLL? I would like to do more with Zigbee than just turn on a light bulb.
Check out the JowiHue plug-in if you need extended Zigbee support: https://forums.homeseer.com/showthread.php?p=1137957
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  #170  
Old May 1st, 2018, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macromark View Post
Check out the JowiHue plug-in if you need extended Zigbee support: https://forums.homeseer.com/showthread.php?p=1137957
I have. It is wholly dependent on whatever deCONZ supports. deCONZ doesn't support much more than lights or that whole osram, philips ecosystem either. They also support the Xiaomi<SP?>. I have ZHA devices that I want to use directly but I can't. So I'm having to use my Vera Plus to continue using those devices.
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  #171  
Old May 1st, 2018, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeubanks View Post
I have ZHA devices that I want to use directly but I can't.
What are these devices? Are they exclusive to Zigbee or are there Z-Wave equivalents available? Curious...
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  #172  
Old May 1st, 2018, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macromark View Post
What are these devices? Are they exclusive to Zigbee or are there Z-Wave equivalents available? Curious...
Specifically the ones I REALLY care about are the NYCE devices. Notably the NYCE Ceiling Motion Sensor.

If you can make/find a z-wave motion sensor that is a FAST in response/reset and didn't look like an eye-ball watching you I'd buy them and forget about Zigbee. I have tried numerous brands/models of z-wave motion sensors. I have found a couple that are just as fast/sensitive/reset speed but they again are eye-balls!!! and well even to me that's creepy in the bathroom!

The NYCE devices of which I've used/tested are top of the line. No equivalent that I've found. I suppose because they are manufactured under Control4 requirements. NYCE is a Control4 device maker but they have entered into the "consumer" market with their ZHA devices.
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  #173  
Old May 1st, 2018, 05:19 PM
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Have you tried this one, we have one here and I thought it worked pretty well:

http://enerwaveautomation.com/products/zwnbpc/

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeubanks View Post
Specifically the ones I REALLY care about are the NYCE devices. Notably the NYCE Ceiling Motion Sensor.

If you can make/find a z-wave motion sensor that is a FAST in response/reset and didn't look like an eye-ball watching you I'd buy them and forget about Zigbee. I have tried numerous brands/models of z-wave motion sensors. I have found a couple that are just as fast/sensitive/reset speed but they again are eye-balls!!! and well even to me that's creepy in the bathroom!

The NYCE devices of which I've used/tested are top of the line. No equivalent that I've found. I suppose because they are manufactured under Control4 requirements. NYCE is a Control4 device maker but they have entered into the "consumer" market with their ZHA devices.
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  #174  
Old May 1st, 2018, 05:22 PM
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Also, in bathrooms I use our HSM200 as its easy to just plug it into the outlet by the sink and I don't have to worry about batteries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjh View Post
Have you tried this one, we have one here and I thought it worked pretty well:

http://enerwaveautomation.com/products/zwnbpc/

Last edited by rjh; May 1st, 2018 at 06:01 PM.
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  #175  
Old May 1st, 2018, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jeubanks View Post
The NYCE devices of which I've used/tested are top of the line. No equivalent that I've found. I suppose because they are manufactured under Control4 requirements. NYCE is a Control4 device maker but they have entered into the "consumer" market with their ZHA devices.
These? The description says they are not C4 compatible. Anyway, I know we had an Enerwave ceiling sensor here to test some time ago and I stumbled onto this one too. Might be worth a try?
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  #176  
Old May 1st, 2018, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by macromark View Post
These? The description says they are not C4 compatible. Anyway, I know we had an Enerwave ceiling sensor here to test some time ago and I stumbled onto this one too. Might be worth a try?
There are two version of NYCE products. The NOT for C4 are their "consumer" ZHA products.

The BeSense. I have one. It's ok, but slow even on the "test" setting that isn't supposed to have a long reset time. The unit is also HUGE. Not discreet by any means. I have it in the kitchen currently. Soon to be replaced by a ceiling fan and probably a NYCE curtain motion sensor on the entry way.

I also have the ZSE02, ZSE09, Fibaro Multi-Sensor, the Aeotec 6 is also too slow. The Iris sensor is nice and fast

The ZSE02 is fast and works good for lights. But the unit is also large about the size of an echo dot. It does have direct power capabilities which makes it even faster. Good unit, but not discreet.

ZSE09 is VERY fast and sensitive. I spent hours adjusting the sensitivity. It will go off from a ghost! But again, it's an eye ball

Fibaro is not really meant for light control and they even don't recommend it for that. In order to be "pet" friendly it is recommended to not set the pulse low. So I set it as low as it would go It is fast and could work, but again an Eye ball... literally when it lights up.

Aeotec multi-sensor... just not a good motion sensor by the reviews. I don't own one myself because of the numerous other people warning against it for motion. I have considered it for temp/humidity but the zooz ZSE40 is much cheaper for that.

ZSE40 motion also is not good for lighting. The ZSE40 v2 is better according to people at thesmartesthouse.com but they also said it's not the best for lighting.

I have not tried the ecolink that is out there because of it's appearance and mounting.

As for the HS branded motion sensor I have not tried. I like the whole plugin idea and that it's a multi-sensor that is good as well. The problem is that the single plug in the bathroom is on the entry wall. So unless the sensor can see behind itself it won't work (happy to try if you want to send me one).

So... any more recommendations on a motion sensor for light control?
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  #177  
Old May 1st, 2018, 05:57 PM
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Have you tried this one, we have one here and I thought it worked pretty well:

http://enerwaveautomation.com/products/zwnbpc/
I have not tried that one. I have the link open and I will look for it. Do you carry it? If not I'll look for it again. I do remember looking for it before and I think it was out of stock on Amazon or something.
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  #178  
Old May 1st, 2018, 06:03 PM
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Shows in stock on Amazon.

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Originally Posted by jeubanks View Post
I have not tried that one. I have the link open and I will look for it. Do you carry it? If not I'll look for it again. I do remember looking for it before and I think it was out of stock on Amazon or something.
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  #179  
Old May 1st, 2018, 06:11 PM
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Shows in stock on Amazon.
I'll have to look into it. I'll ask around about it as well. Before I go spending on more devices I'm waiting to see if any more HS sales are coming or spending on plugins now that I'm licensed.
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  #180  
Old May 2nd, 2018, 11:49 AM
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Update, we have a plugin that supports on/off/dim working.

Here is the issue. Lightify changed the devices ID's for the Zigbee lights that are added to the system. Because of this, we cannot match the existing ID's that you have in your plugin. This means you will need to edit all of your events.

Can you post back how many Zigbee devices you have in your system. We might be able to create a way to map the new ID's to the old ones using a config screen. But if you only have a few devices, this may not be worth the effort.
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