What to ask our electrician?

[Beowulf]

Greetings!

So things are getting exciting for us here. We bought a piece of land about two years ago, had a MUCH longer home design process then we expected and have been working on bids and permitting for the last couple months.

In the next few weeks we will be meeting with some electricians to decide on who we will be going with. So I wanted to come here and ask some questions of what I should be communicating in those meetings. I hope the community here can help frame some of those questions for us.

We have been mapping out all of our "special" lighting ( chandeliers, sconces, etc. ) locations on the blueprint but we also have recessed zone lighting in most rooms that we're just marking up generally ( ie. 3x recessed lights in bathroom ). We are currently planning to use HS-WD* / HS-WS* switches on the light sets that we want to have immediate HS control over but due to cost we will be using standard switches on a number of lights and replace those switches over time if we think it's worth the cost.

So what do I need to communicate to the electricians in terms of requirements for this? Do I just let him know that all switches need to be three-wire runs to account for future changes (and keep things less confusing than questioning 2 vs 3 wire sets)? Or is there something else they need to be aware of?

I will be running some flex conduit and pulling wire for network and A/V. I will also likely being the one running the wires for the DSC security components. We have been talking about this with our builder since Day One discussions and he's perfectly fine with us getting in there and doing this before the sheet rock goes up.

Is there anything else other than special light-switch requirements that we should talk to the electrician about? I'll be honest that I don't want to mention HA, whole-house audio, home theater or gig network runs to them unless absolutely needed because we've found some people bump their quotes thinking these are "luxury items" so we must be loaded. Meanwhile we're working on shaving a thousand here, fifteen hundred there, etc. We are the ones that will be living with the mortgage for decades to come.

advTHANKSance!
-L

[rmasonjr]

All switch locations should have a neutral installed - even the locations where you are installing standard switches. Nothing is more frustrating than fishing wire to a switch box after everything is drywalled and finished.

[Beowulf]

All switch locations should have a neutral installed - even the locations where you are installing standard switches. Nothing is more frustrating than fishing wire to a switch box after everything is drywalled and finished.

Agreed! That's what I was meaning when I said a 3-wire run but maybe that's not the right term (I am not an electrician but have replaced many outlets, fixtures, vent motors, etc. and am comfortable with such).

So I should say "I want a neutral run for all switch locations" vs. "a three-wire run"?

Sorry if this is a stupid question.

Other items we should discuss with them?

[Stuart]

Deeper electric boxes makes it easier. Each alarm sensor should be a complete home run. Run extra network runs, label them all by room location.

Stuart

[Pete]

You could say a hot, neutral and ground wire to each box. Also you want deep boxes for your automation switches.

Also if you wire up ceiling boxes for fans ask for both lighting and fan power wires going to the wall switch. Relating to the electrical panel here added broke down breakers (switches) to smaller more granular circuits. IE: master bath room had separate lighting, whirlpool tub, et al breakers. Family room had outlets for multimedia configured separately from lighting and other outlets. I went overboard on the GFI outlets here in the kitchen, bathrooms and outdoor outlets. On another forum an automator hired a lighting designer for placement of lights. Many rooms (all of the bedrooms and some of the other rooms) are using outlets with 1/2 always on power and 1/2 of the duplex outlet going to a wall switch. The electrical boxes are 4X4 and some are double duplex and others are single duplex mud plates over the 4X4 boxes. (IE: for the fan, fan lights and 1/2 of the duplex wall outlets). If you will be utilizing the garage for tinkering wire multiple electrical outlets to the garage walls (and a gas line for supplimental heat). Old friend recently built his home and installed pex tubing in the unfinished basement for heat.

If doing low voltage wiring home run it to one location.

Ran cables outdoors for ISP / satellite connectivity to home run area, low voltage sprinkler box, fireplace (s), et al.

Did three way switches for the outdoor lighting (garage, front entrance, rear entrance), hallways, kitchen, deck, et al.

For the deck ran a natural gas line, 120 VAC for lighting (used a regular 120VAC outdoor lamp over the grill area) and power next to BBQ grill and low voltage wiring.

If you can subcontract an alarm company prewire for alarm panel. The alarm wiring folks are experts and did much better than I could have done (DIY'd one myself).

Wire is cheap.

Have a look on Homeseer's sister site called Cocoontech. There are low voltage wiring guides there and over the years many folks have asked similar questions to yours relating to a new home build.

[reidfo]

I've had two houses built, and just moved into an existing one. There are several things I have learned from the experience.

• Run more low voltage cable than you think you need. Cat 6a or Cat 7 for network, and even phone. Multiple drops per room if you can swing the budget.
• If possible, have the electrician run conduit to each drop. Makes pulling new cable or replacing cable much easier.
• Run multiple coax and twisted pair cables to the outside for phone, network, satellite, cable, etc. Most builders only run one of each, and usually don't run it in a way that's easy to change later. Definitely run some larger conduit for the outside connections.
• Put in more electric outlets than you think you need. Think about spaces above cabinets, in cabinets, etc. where you may want to put things like under cabinet lighting or LED strips.
• Make sure ALL low voltage wiring is home run. Many electricians don't understand this and will try to daisy chain low voltage wiring thinking it's just for analog phone jacks. This can be a real pain to fix later.
• If your central wiring location (you are planning one, right?) isn't easily accessible from the attic then run large diameter conduit from that location to an easil accessible locatio in the attic. I learned the hard way that a central wiring closet is almost worthless if you can't easily get new wiring into it.
• Make sure the electrician doesn't run your low voltage cable directly parallel to high voltage wiring. This can cause EMI and ruin your network performance. Where low voltage and high voltage cross run them perpendicular, and make sure network wiring isn't crimped, stapled, or bent to extremes (60 degrees or less bend radius is ideal).

[jon102034050]

I've had two houses built, and just moved into an existing one. There are several things I have learned from the experience.

• Run more low voltage cable than you think you need. Cat 6a or Cat 7 for network, and even phone. Multiple drops per room if you can swing the budget.
• If possible, have the electrician run conduit to each drop. Makes pulling new cable or replacing cable much easier.
• Run multiple coax and twisted pair cables to the outside for phone, network, satellite, cable, etc. Most builders only run one of each, and usually don't run it in a way that's easy to change later. Definitely run some larger conduit for the outside connections.
• Put in more electric outlets than you think you need. Think about spaces above cabinets, in cabinets, etc. where you may want to put things like under cabinet lighting or LED strips.
• Make sure ALL low voltage wiring is home run. Many electricians don't understand this and will try to daisy chain low voltage wiring thinking it's just for analog phone jacks. This can be a real pain to fix later.
• If your central wiring location (you are planning one, right?) isn't easily accessible from the attic then run large diameter conduit from that location to an easil accessible locatio in the attic. I learned the hard way that a central wiring closet is almost worthless if you can't easily get new wiring into it.
• Make sure the electrician doesn't run your low voltage cable directly parallel to high voltage wiring. This can cause EMI and ruin your network performance. Where low voltage and high voltage cross run them perpendicular, and make sure network wiring isn't crimped, stapled, or bent to extremes (60 degrees or less bend radius is ideal).

this is great advice. where the heck were you 3yrs ago when I built? lol

[logbuilder]

I'm just starting to move into energy management at my log house. I can put up to 12 inputs to the reporting system (eGauge) by putting CT clamps on various circuits in the master panel. As I look at my panel, I wish I had put some thought into what goes on each circuit in terms of measuring and reporting.

[chiphead]

[Olbrit]

You didn't mention incoming power, but in certain cases I recommend 2 breaker boxes connected to 2 separate power feeds from the house outside power junction, then 1 breaker box can have the 'heavy' draw items like HVAC and water heater (anything that all coming on at once could cause a voltage drop) and the 2nd breaker box can have all the 'low' draw' items like lights, alarm, HA, and power sockets; also make sure the breaker box(es) have plenty of spare slots for future equipment; if you're thinking about a pool/heater, spa, generator, etc., then a lot of pre-work can be done now.

[BraveSirRobbin]

As was mentioned earlier, think about outlets! You are running your own low voltage, but think about where you might want an electrical outlet.

In my previous house I had outlets run to all four corners of the exterior of the house, plus the middle of each 'long' section for cameras and such. Also (I did this myself before landscaping was in) I ran electrical conduit and outlets to the back of the yard where the block divider wall was to I could have cameras there looking back at the house. Also had one for a fountain, and low voltage lighting in those areas.

Would you want a weather station some time in the future? How about a motorized gate? Christmas lighting? Flood lighting? (run switched electrical to these locations). Water pumps (fountains, ponds, etc...)? Backyard BBQ area?

What about the garage? Welder (220 maybe in an area?), fridge?, woodworking equipment?

Do you have an RV? I ran a dedicated 30 amp plug to that location.

[Beowulf]

Thanks for the great ideas so far. It definitely triggered a couple new thoughts.

As mentioned earlier we'll be running our own cat5 and AV/speaker cable. We plan on running some flex conduit for main runs and leave a small rope in after all our pulls in case we need to add to it down the road. I like the flexibility of wifi but will take a hard-wire connection over it any day. So we'll have a run to all "smart" AV equipment (plus an extra pull to most such locations) as well as two runs to each desk/work area.

My wife has a background designing solar PV systems (grid-tied, battery off-grid and hybrid) and is already placing two panels for us. Nice not having to worry about that one. :-) We're planning for growth but panel prices do go up fast as the size increases so we are working to have an honest baseline for ourselves while sizing these.

Some conduit runs are going into our landscape zones but we haven't put thought yet to what these will look like...so it's just going to be empty runs with some pull ropes initially.

We have a courtyard wall that will have some lights flanking the gate and I'd love to put a remote gate lock on it, but I've had no luck finding that yet. I can find lots of options for large driveway gates but nothing appropriate for a simple door-sized wall gate. I will be running a conduit here though for a camera at that location and future gate control if we find the right product. Anyone familiar with options for this?

For the garage we are setting up a small workbench with multiple plugs and an appropriate height. I do basic wood work (mostly train & wargame related) and home repair but nothing significant any more.

We are likely going with Liftmaster garage door openers that have the wifi feature. It appears there is an HS plugin that allows status and control of these so I hope nothing too fancy is needed beyond that.

[Beowulf]

Would you want a weather station some time in the future?

You mentioned a weather station and that is actually a hobby area that my wife and I, not to mention two of our children, have a great interest in. We will be in pretty rural location and would love a multi-sensor system to feed our own weather monitoring bug and maybe even serve as a station for Wunderground or such. I would love to know any experience or recommendations you have on stations, especially if they can integrate with HS for status display.

[Pete]

Here utilize a few weather instruments outside. Main weather station is a Davis with a wireless console. Puchased a custom serial with buffer cable from Australia for it and connected it to an RPi2 running Jessie / Wheezy / Cumulus weather software. Homeseer reads a delimited text file from it and creates variables using two HS3 weather plugins; Cumulus and WeatherXML.

Weather stuff info goes to a custom hosted website.

Personally prefer to utilize Unisys Weather for my internet weather maps.



Utilize 1-wire sensors. Barometer, Digital Hydreon Rain sensor, Dallas Tipping bucket, light sensors, humidity sensor/s, soil moisture (experiment) and lightning sensor.

Weather info is uploaded to WUN (not so much anymore) and APRS/CWOP.

Newest tinker toy is using an RPi, SDR and antenna tuned to NOAA satellites at 137Mhz for downloading of weather maps.

Playing with two antennas. Picture below is utilizing a V-Dipole antenna mounted in the attic. Small at 21" or so.



All of the above interacts with Homeseer 3.

Locally here have taken NOAA classes offered for free provided by local television meteorologist. I did notice entire family's in attendance. Part of the class related to storm watching and tornado watching and reporting.

Many years ago whole working for an airline they had 1/2 of one floor at their HQ dedicated to meteorologists. I would sit there sometimes for hours watching them speak to pilots guiding them a bit...it was addicting.

Electrical wise here have good grounding and put in a commercial surge protector next to my fuse panel. The surge protector has a NC/NO switch to the alarm panel.

Eaton sells these (it is a bit over the top). Found a new one for $200 at the time.



Also installed one on the ingress of the outside AC compressor.

Also connected to the alarm panel is a NOAA radio with an external to alarm panel switch for NOAA alerts (which I also do with Homeseer 3 WeatherXML).

[Eman]

You don't have get these but think about them :

https://www.doorbird.com/

and Ubiquiti-UniFi-UAP-AC-Lite-5-Access

Eman.