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HS3 only seeing 1 command when tapping two switches at same time

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    HS3 only seeing 1 command when tapping two switches at same time

    Hi,

    I have two Insteon dimmers in a double gang junction box. Sometimes I tap both of them Off at the same time. Just today, I noticed that HS only saw one of the switches get set to Off, and surprisingly it was the one that was already Off.

    I've been experiencing a symptom of this problem for a long time and it wasn't until now that I realized why.

    I could kind of understand why this might happen but I was hoping the devices and/or PLM would be smart enough to detect simultaneous transmission and try again. Or perhaps they are and the plugin is skipping them...I haven't enabled detailed logging to check yet. I was hoping someone has experienced this before and can tell me it's expected, or has a solution. If not, I'll check those logs.

    Thanks!
    HS4, Insteon, Z-wave, USB-UIRT, Harmony Hubs, Google Hub/Chromecasts/Speakers, Foscam & Amcrest cameras, EZVIZ DB1 doorbell
    Plugins: BLLAN, BLOccupied, BLUSBUIRT, Chromecast, Harmony Hub, Insteon, Jon00 Homeseer/Echo Skill Helper, Harmony Hub, Jon00 DB Charting, MediaController, NetCAM, PHLocation2, Pushover 3P, weatherXML, Z-wave

    #2
    The insteon protocol doesn't guarantee msg delivery. Msgs can clobber each other.

    i'll need to see a detailed log so see if both msgs are making it to the PLM.
    Mark

    HS3 Pro 4.2.19.5
    Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway | Tuya Smart Plugs
    Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | HS MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Tuya | Jon00 Charting | Jon00 Links
    Platform: Windows Server 2022 Standard, i5-12600K/3.7GHz/10 core, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD

    Comment


      #3
      I have the same experience as @mrceolla.

      The Insteon whitepaper mentions:

      INSTEON Message Retrying
      If the originator of an INSTEON Direct message does not receive an acknowledgement from the intended recipient, the message originator will automatically try resending the message up to five times. Additional retries are carried out if the application simply resends the message.


      Wouldn't that "sort of" garantie that both switch messages get to HS?

      Comment


        #4
        retrying 5 times will help, but is no guarantee.

        the plugin will only process what it sees from the plm.

        let me know what you find in the detailed log
        Mark

        HS3 Pro 4.2.19.5
        Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway | Tuya Smart Plugs
        Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | HS MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Tuya | Jon00 Charting | Jon00 Links
        Platform: Windows Server 2022 Standard, i5-12600K/3.7GHz/10 core, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD

        Comment


          #5
          An Insteon device watches what's happening on the powerline as it transmits. If the line doesn't match the transmission, it stops, and waits a short random delay to let the other device finish, then tries again. That's how they try to prevent simultaneous crashes. However, the problem would happen more frequently if the Insteon powerline network, or RF network is weak, ie poor signal strength and other interference on the powerlines. A weak network will make the devices struggle to be heard at the best of times, and simultaneous transmission might be too much and fail 5 retries.

          What is the Comm Reliability % for your problem switches? If it is much less than about 90%, your system could use some clean-up. There are several other posts in this board that talk about how to do that. Click this link https://forums.homeseer.com/showthre...ghlight=filter and scroll to post #15.

          Work-around: If you often press two switches to turn multiple lights on or off, another option is to add an event that triggers on a double-tap (Fast Off) on one of the switches and sends the commands to turn both (or more) lights off. That way there is only one switch being pressed at once, and eliminates the chance that two switches are transmitting simultaneously.

          Comment


            #6
            guys, i couple of test results from my system when pressing two switches in the same box at the same time...

            Sep-17 8:18:09 PM Insteon Received Kitchen Recessed Lights (main) (28.E0.CF) Go OFF Fast
            Sep-17 8:18:08 PM Insteon Received Kitchen Island Lights (aux) (17.8C.1D) Go OFF Fast

            Sep-17 8:17:47 PM Insteon Received Kitchen Recessed Lights (main) (28.E0.CF) Go ON
            Sep-17 8:17:47 PM Insteon Received Kitchen Island Lights (aux) (17.8C.1D) Go ON
            Mark

            HS3 Pro 4.2.19.5
            Hardware: Insteon Serial PLM | AD2USB for Vista Alarm | HAI Omnistat2 | 1-Wire HA7E | RFXrec433 | Dahua Cameras | LiftMaster Internet Gateway | Tuya Smart Plugs
            Plugins: Insteon (mine) | Vista Alarm (mine) | Omnistat 3 | Ultra1Wire3 | RFXCOM | HS MyQ | BLRadar | BLDenon | Tuya | Jon00 Charting | Jon00 Links
            Platform: Windows Server 2022 Standard, i5-12600K/3.7GHz/10 core, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD

            Comment


              #7
              I just tried as well with 2 switches side by side:
              1. On
              2. Off
              3. On
              4. Off


              The lights respond but the log is missing some corresponding entries. I guess the synchronicity of pushing both paddles, or lack of, plays a role.

              I'll do more tests tomorrow with debug on.

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks for all the input. I haven't had time to enable detailed logging and test yet (remodeling that area) but when I do I will report back. I suspect it's a mixture of weaker than optimal comm and the simultaneous presses, however both of these switches are reporting 0 missed of over 650 commands on each, so 100%. Of course, that's only reporting commands from HS to the switches and not the other way around, correct? I know I have other areas where there are comm issues so perhaps that's playing a role as well.
                HS4, Insteon, Z-wave, USB-UIRT, Harmony Hubs, Google Hub/Chromecasts/Speakers, Foscam & Amcrest cameras, EZVIZ DB1 doorbell
                Plugins: BLLAN, BLOccupied, BLUSBUIRT, Chromecast, Harmony Hub, Insteon, Jon00 Homeseer/Echo Skill Helper, Harmony Hub, Jon00 DB Charting, MediaController, NetCAM, PHLocation2, Pushover 3P, weatherXML, Z-wave

                Comment

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