www.homeseer.com    
 

Go Back   HomeSeer Message Board > Lighting & Primary Technology Plug-ins > Lighting & Primary Technology Discussion > HomeSeer Zigbee Plug-in

HomeSeer Zigbee Plug-in Discussions relating to the Zigbee plug-in

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #161  
Old October 28th, 2017, 06:30 PM
rjh's Avatar
rjh rjh is offline
HomeSeer Technologies
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Bedford, NH, USA
Posts: 8,518
Our Z-Wave support is much different than other systems. We interrogate the device you are adding and build the devices based on the device classes supported. This makes the software much more compatible. However, it also does make the UI a mess in many cases. Many devices support the new notification class then also support BASIC SET or BINARY for notifications so that the device works with older controllers. So HS creates 2 devices, when you only need one. To fix this we have been slowly removing the duplicate device as well as renaming devices so they are consistent, and adding specific icons for things like motion/luminance etc. when we know what the device actually supports. Unfortunately, Z-Wave never added identifiers for what a sensor senses, such as motion or door open. But we can look at the manufacturer ID to figure that out.

So while the UI is not totally consistent, at least it works for just about everything you add, even devices we have never tested. I have added many newer devices to other controllers and they did not work at all since most controllers have to add support specifically for the device.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltek View Post
I did mix in a few general device usability issues, ultimately ALL of the gaps can be addressed via methods of device handling in HS3 code.

Regardless if comparing to Vera or Wink or ST... HS3 should be 100x better at all things. Homeseer software is 18 years old, Zwave support is 14 years old. Yet, HS3 is less mature in many ways (maybe most ways) of Device handling then any of those 3. Lets start with an easy ones... treat a Motion sensor or a Door lock or <insert device type here>, the exact same, no matter what the brand. The others do. HS3 simply exposes the ugly underbelly of Zwave values/parameters and requires the user to make everything work as we need and that causes problems too... HS3's competition does it correctly and uniformly thus not requiring the extra work and problems.

As much as I like HS3 - the software feels like its 18 year old code, not like its 18 years mature.
__________________
Rich,


website | products | support | youtube
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old October 28th, 2017, 08:48 PM
Ltek Ltek is offline
Seer Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: earth
Posts: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjh View Post
Our Z-Wave support is much different than other systems. We interrogate the device you are adding and build the devices based on the device classes supported. This makes the software much more compatible. However, it also does make the UI a mess in many cases. Many devices support the new notification class then also support BASIC SET or BINARY for notifications so that the device works with older controllers. So HS creates 2 devices, when you only need one. To fix this we have been slowly removing the duplicate device as well as renaming devices so they are consistent, and adding specific icons for things like motion/luminance etc. when we know what the device actually supports. Unfortunately, Z-Wave never added identifiers for what a sensor senses, such as motion or door open. But we can look at the manufacturer ID to figure that out.

So while the UI is not totally consistent, at least it works for just about everything you add, even devices we have never tested. I have added many newer devices to other controllers and they did not work at all since most controllers have to add support specifically for the device.
For this Zwave device issue the fix is simple conceptually and you will leverage your community to do the work for you as new devices come to market.

Fix:
Create user editable 'Device Patterns / Templates' for each device type. When new device is paired, HS3 looks to see if a template is defined, if it is, it uses that to create the Device(s) in HS3. As new devices come to market anyone can add them to a template.

This will make it on consistent. Such as:

0 is always 'No Motion', 1 is always Motion
... even if the device sends 255 or 7 or 8, HS3 converts it based on the template's definition.
and the same goes for the Child Devices themselves. When some devices define 'Home Security', HS3 coverts that to the child named "Motion" to be consistent with all the other motion devices.

<rant>
With a small amount of effort and the desire so many HS3 gaps/issues, like Zwave handling, could be 100x better.

I understand how the Zwave handling is the way it is but you've had 14 years to implement a method to overcome the challenge.

All your competitors (Wink, ST, Vera, etc) solved for this as a design requirement prior to launch in v1.0

Several things in HS3 are are in the same boat where a litte effort would go a long way

Example: plugin installer requiring manual file copying to install anything not on your HS server
... BTW, Bill Gates called to say the DOS code you are using to do that is now open source ;-)

Example: no built-in method to autostart HS3
... yup, Bill Gates called again to say he built this into the Windows 3.1 SDK

While I make light of the gaps I mention above, it is concerning that they, and numerous others like it, exist at all after 17 years of development.
</rant>
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old October 29th, 2017, 05:14 AM
sooty sooty is offline
Super Seer
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 2,419
I've been using HS3 with Z-Wave here in the UK since both HS3 and the Z-Wave plug-in were first available in beta form, so I have gained quite a bit of experience in this area over the years.

Whilst I can sympathise with HST's quest in trying to keep up with the constantly moving target that is Z-Wave, I do agree with Ltek's comments about the use of the word "supported".

A better choice of words (for European users at least) may have been:
"The product may be fully or partially supported if you have sufficient time and knowledge to research and test multiple permutations of settings using our somewhat non-user-friendly settings interface as well as removing most of the unnecessary configuration that we set up for you by default."

I really don't know what their (HST's) target user base is for Homeseer but I can't for the life of me imagine that the typical householder without some serious time on their hands is going to have any level of success setting up a working Z-Wave network. I have spent countless hours helping out other UK users who are totally bamboozled when starting out with Z-Wave.

I appreciate that some of the issues around Z-Wave (device bugs etc) are outside of HST's control and Z-Wave is a complex technology but the way in which the user interacts with the software shouldn't be as painful as it is right now.

Quote:
Our Z-Wave support is much different than other systems. We interrogate the device you are adding and build the devices based on the device classes supported.
I assume that interrogating the device doesn't give you a nice list of the parameters that it supports and what they do and this is why the settings section on the Z-Wave tab is a mess in many cases.

Overall, I would say that in its current state, setting up Homeseer with Z-Wave is more of a "professional" task than something to be taken on by an "end user" where perhaps the likes of Vera etc could be deemed more of an "end user friendly" experience.

Paul..
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old November 26th, 2017, 07:43 AM
darkjamzi darkjamzi is offline
Seer
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 17
I ordered Zigate, this is a Zigbee USB contrpller which supports ZHA ZLL Zigbee v 3.0 etc etc. It can control Philips Hue, Xiaomi and other brands without the need for extra hubs from those vendors.

Would this plug-in work with the Zigate?
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old November 27th, 2017, 04:07 AM
Moskus's Avatar
Moskus Moskus is offline
OverSeer
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,706
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkjamzi View Post
Would this plug-in work with the Zigate?
No.


Instead I would suggest go for a RaspBee on a Raspberry Pi, install deCONZ and use that as a gatewa for JowiHue.
__________________
HSPro 3.0.0.368, Z-NET with Z-wave plugin 3.0.1.190, RFXCOM + 2x RFXtrx433E, HSTouch, Squeezebox plugin, iTach IP/WF2IR & GC-100-6 with UltraGCIR, BLDenon, NetcamStudio, Jon00s Webpage builder, Harmony Hub plugin, SCSIP (with FreePBX), Arduino plugin, IFTTT, Pushalot plugin, Device History plugin.
Running on Windows 10 (64) virtualized
on ESXi (Fujitsu Primergy TX150 S8).
WinSeer (for Win10) - TextSeer - FitbitSeer - HSPI_MoskusSample

Are you Norwegian (or Scandinavian) and getting started with HomSeer? Read the "HomeSeer School"!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HS3 Insteon Plug-In Version 3.0.6.30 Beta (Win & Linux)..In Beta section of Updater mnsandler Insteon Plug-in (Mark Sandler) 83 January 5th, 2018 02:02 PM
HS3 Insteon Plug-In Version 3.0.5.88 Beta (Win & Linux)..In Beta section of Updater mnsandler Insteon Plug-in (Mark Sandler) 102 November 15th, 2016 08:48 PM
Beta Builds are now in the Beta forum rjh HS2 / HSPRO 0 January 7th, 2013 04:48 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:49 PM.


Copyright HomeSeer Technologies, LLC