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  #1  
Old August 21st, 2017, 06:44 PM
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Krumpy Krumpy is offline
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What the heck is going on with the Navy?

I feel for the families of the missing soldiers. Horrible tragedy which certainly could have been prevented. I hope for the best possible outcome for the missing crew member.

Two Destroyers being hit by commercial vessels in last than three months? What the heck is going on?

So, the latest Destroyer got hit on the port side. Normally it would have had the right of way, but certainly a crude ship three times the Destroyers size can not maneuver out of its way easily.

I dunno, it is a military ship and certainly should be aware of traffic around it!
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Old August 21st, 2017, 07:34 PM
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Two collisions in two months is a little disturbing. The June where we lost 7 sailors was "in the June collision, the Fitzgerald’s captain was relieved of his command and other sailors were being punished after the Navy found poor seamanship and flaws in keeping watch contributed to the collision. An investigation into how and why the Fitzgerald collided with the other ship was not finished, but enough details were known to take those actions, the Navy said."

My dad was a Navy guy, commander of the USS Wake Island aircraft carrier during WWII. If he was still around, I'm sure he would have some thoughts.
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  #3  
Old August 22nd, 2017, 09:36 PM
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As a retired SCPO (1983-2005) they tie up the younger sailors with all kinds of "training" in the Political Correctness realm at the expense of basic training on what is important.


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Old August 23rd, 2017, 05:00 PM
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Those of us heavily involved in home automation have had experience with false alarms and lots of warning messages. I would not be surprised if the investigation of these tragic incidents shows that alarms were ignored because they were believed to be false alarms or an equipment malfunction. By the time visual conformation of an impending collision was received, it was too late to disengage the autopilot.

Steve Q


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Old August 25th, 2017, 05:32 PM
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The bottom line is the people charged with steering and over seeing the perimeter of the ship failed to do their freaking jobs. Can you imagine the Chinese, Russians, Koreans, were going to conduct a secret attack?!?

Every American ship based on these two examples would be at the bottom of the sea!!

To be clear the destroyer in June collided with the larger vessel. The other ship did not steer into the destroyer. The destroyer headed directly toward the slow moving cargo ship.

The cargo ship has the right of way just like a huge 18 wheeler. You can yell all you want it doesn't really matter. Physic's isn't on your side if you get hit. The Captain, XO, and Master Chief were all fired and let go as they deserved to. Those steering the bloody ships should be charged, hung, and thrown out to sea.

Because its those stupid fools along with the *Look Out* and radar operators who failed to react and do something about a massive ship moving like a snail.

I can tell you with high confidence if there was ever a real war at sea more than 60% of the American fleet would be in the bottom of the ocean.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 06:54 PM
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Reminds me of an old joke.

This is the transcript of a radio conversation of a US naval ship with Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland in October, 1995. Radio conversation released by the Chief of Naval Operations 10-10-95.

Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.
Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.
Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.
Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.
Americans: This is the aircraft carrier USS Lincoln, the second largest ship in the United States' Atlantic fleet. We are accompanied by three destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels. I demand that YOU change your course 15 degrees north, that's one five degrees north, or countermeasures will be undertaken to ensure the safety of this ship.
Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call
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Old August 25th, 2017, 06:56 PM
Teken Teken is offline
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Classic


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Old August 25th, 2017, 07:11 PM
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There is a shake up on its way.
http://www.news.com.au/world/north-a...e4f8b6e8ce04ef
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Old August 25th, 2017, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logbuilder View Post
Reminds me of an old joke.

This is the transcript of a radio conversation of a US naval ship with Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland in October, 1995. Radio conversation released by the Chief of Naval Operations 10-10-95.

Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.
Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.
Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.
Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.
Americans: This is the aircraft carrier USS Lincoln, the second largest ship in the United States' Atlantic fleet. We are accompanied by three destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels. I demand that YOU change your course 15 degrees north, that's one five degrees north, or countermeasures will be undertaken to ensure the safety of this ship.
Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call
I know you stated it was a joke, yet it was presented as fact in several newspapers.

I heard this story from my father in the '60s, which he said was an old joke. A funny story, but it is still a fabrication. Snopes

Lighthouses were manned at one time, but haven't been for decades.

Last edited by rprade; August 25th, 2017 at 07:35 PM.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 07:39 PM
zwolfpack zwolfpack is online now
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Lighthouses were manned at one time, but haven't been for decades.
Yes, they all run LightHomeSeer now...
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  #11  
Old August 25th, 2017, 07:41 PM
Teken Teken is offline
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Read something similar to that article. It was a good read but doesn't address why those steering the ship or in opsec haven't been fired and hung.


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Old August 26th, 2017, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Teken View Post
Read something similar to that article. It was a good read but doesn't address why those steering the ship or in opsec haven't been fired and hung.
Not sure about the hanging part, but I think there has been some firing and discipline.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/w...n.html?mcubz=0
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Old August 26th, 2017, 11:11 AM
Teken Teken is offline
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Not sure about the hanging part, but I think there has been some firing and discipline.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/w...n.html?mcubz=0


Yes, as I stated in my previous reply the Captain, XO, Master Chief, and the head of the 7th Fleet were turfed.

Doesn't address the people actually steering and watching the safety and perimeter of the ship.

How they can blame some old dude tens of thousands of miles away like the 7th Fleet Commander directly just boggles the mind. I get the buck stops at X vs Y.

But let's be real ~ I run over a old lady in my car. The family / estate doesn't come after my Dad, Drivers Ed instructor!!

I was charged with care and control of the vehicle. I failed to pay attention and the end result is a death.

All the people who were steering the freaking ship or told to move the ship toward the large freighter need to be called out. Prosecuted and then hung and thrown out to see.

This last sh^t show accident happen in broad day light?!? If that isn't a real WTF I don't know what is!!!

God save us all if any of the Chinese, Russians decide it's a good time to sink a few ships. Because it's clear the US Navy isn't prepared or ready to even drive a freaking boat!!


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  #14  
Old August 26th, 2017, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Teken View Post
Yes, as I stated in my previous reply the Captain, XO, Master Chief, and the head of the 7th Fleet were turfed.
. . .How they can blame some old dude tens of thousands of miles away like the 7th Fleet Commander directly just boggles the mind. I get the buck stops at X vs Y.
To really understand all the layers of this problem will require a very thoroughgoing investigation headed by someone with impeccable credentials. The "old dude tens of thousands of miles away" is about to retire, and no matter how honest an investigation he might lead, there would always be room for suspicion that he was not fully impartial. The Navy - and the country - must have answers that are unassailable.
Quote:
But let's be real ~ I run over a old lady in my car. The family / estate doesn't come after my Dad, Drivers Ed instructor!!
I was charged with care and control of the vehicle. I failed to pay attention and the end result is a death.
That assumes you are capable of driving a car. What if you were 7 years old or drunk out of your mind (or both)? I'm betting there would be interest in how you got the keys and if you had permission, who from.
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All the people who were steering the freaking ship or told to move the ship toward the large freighter need to be called out. Prosecuted and then hung and thrown out to see.
I suspect that part of the process will be ongoing. We may hear more as the investigation continues, but maybe not, especially if it turns out that (some of) the people placed in charge of the watch or navigation were essentially incapable of doing the job. I think that is the most troubling possibility, and the one with the most terrifying implications.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 04:26 PM
Teken Teken is offline
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I give the Navy no quarter in any of this at all. We are talking about people who do this all day every day for a living. They are the epitome of *Rinse & Repeat in all that they do.

What these incidents come across to me is literally every person on the ship F^cked off and left their station. Perhaps they left the ship in auto steer who really knows!!

There is zero possibility a Navy destroyer with tens of millions of dollars of active / passive force protection elements in broad day light could not avoid a slow moving ship the size of a small island, none.

Between the just these two incidents there is no less than 15 innocent American sailors who are dead.

Not because they were in war, combat, or participating in a drill. They were sleeping in their births in hopes of waking up to serve their country. Yet no less than eight people on those ships were too stupid to do their jobs!

To lose a life for a cause may bring comfort ~ To lose a life due to stupidity brings nothing but pain and sorrow.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 05:34 PM
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What these incidents come across to me is literally every person on the ship F^cked off and left their station. Perhaps they left the ship in auto steer who really knows!!
I think it is likely that most people react to these events with similar outrage and incredulity. How could it happen? . . .Again!!!

Your suggested cause might hold for one incident, but to have similar collisions happen on both the Fitzgerald and the McCain (and the Lake Champlain) implies a much deeper problem. It's not just what they did wrong, though that is critical, but how could it be that with all the scrutiny that followed the Fitzgerald collision they were not under extremely tight supervision and control. If discipline is in the sorry state you describe, then no one on the ship nor none of their superiors in the fleet are doing the job expected of them.

It's not just the grunts on duty at the time. Not just the sailors on one ship. Or three . . . or four. (There was also the grounding of the Antietam to consider.) I'm pretty sure the Navy is worried there is a much more serious and systemic problem. That's certainly what has me concerned.
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