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  #1  
Old August 24th, 2017, 09:02 AM
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If you don't agree to the new Sonos EULA your devices might not work

Sonos is starting to collect user data and if you don't agree you won't receive updates and who knows what else will happen down the line.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/sonos-a...e-to-function/

""The customer can choose to acknowledge the policy, or can accept that over time their product may cease to function," the spokesperson said."

"That "functional data" includes email addresses, IP addresses, and account login information -- as well as device data, information about Wi-Fi antennas and other hardware information, room names, and error data."

No bueno.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 11:42 AM
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That's what I love about cloud services, they never fail to disappoint.
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Old August 24th, 2017, 02:42 PM
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As long as they keep their quality up as it currently is they can have that information and more. It sounds like they want to determine some metrics on home networks for the future addition of their Alexa support. Alexa already know every thing about you
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Old August 24th, 2017, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Rupp View Post
As long as they keep their quality up as it currently is they can have that information and more. It sounds like they want to determine some metrics on home networks for the future addition of their Alexa support. Alexa already know every thing about you
As long as they are using it for internal metrics to improve the products, that might be ok. However, if they decide they want to sell it so they can make anymore money, then it's a no go. There is no way I'm paying a premium for a product so they can sell my usage.

*note, I don't use Sonos, but I'm not a fan of products with a premium price also trying to sell your metrics (not that there are many if any at all).
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Old August 25th, 2017, 07:39 AM
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Personally metrics these days are being utilized for any type of connection to the internet.

home to internet (cloud applications, surfing et al) ==> ISP (metrics look) ===> anywebsite (metrics look)

It really doesn't matter much relating to the disclosures.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 09:44 AM
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As long as they keep their quality up as it currently is they can have that information and more. It sounds like they want to determine some metrics on home networks for the future addition of their Alexa support. Alexa already know every thing about you
Don't have an Alexa or Sonos. They say they will collect email addresses, Probably to send advertising to everyone in your contact list. Since you seem willing to share private information can I get your bank account number? I promise not to share it with a third party.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 09:58 AM
waynehead99 waynehead99 is offline
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Though I don't agree with this new concept of data collecting, lets be realistic. I don't have sonos, but they aren't the first to do this, and they won't be the last. We can complain all we want, but the general public either doesn't have the know how or the care (or probably both) to know what is being collected and possibly sold, and they drive this practice.

If you have an internet connection, you are giving up data just by browsing sites (especially if you are using Chrome). That cell phone in your pocket, yea its giving up a lot of data about you. Google and Facebook are the worst about this and yet we accept it by using the product.

This is the direction things are going, and we are allowing it by buying into iOT devices. The train has started to move, and it will be impossible to stop. We give up privacy for convenience. If you don't want your data sold, your only option is to disconnect from the internet.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by waynehead99 View Post
Though I don't agree with this new concept of data collecting, lets be realistic. I don't have sonos, but they aren't the first to do this, and they won't be the last. We can complain all we want, but the general public either doesn't have the know how or the care (or probably both) to know what is being collected and possibly sold, and they drive this practice.

If you have an internet connection, you are giving up data just by browsing sites (especially if you are using Chrome). That cell phone in your pocket, yea its giving up a lot of data about you. Google and Facebook are the worst about this and yet we accept it by using the product.

This is the direction things are going, and we are allowing it by buying into iOT devices. The train has started to move, and it will be impossible to stop. We give up privacy for convenience. If you don't want your data sold, your only option is to disconnect from the internet.
Well said, we all haemorrhage way way more data than we realise just by the very nature of being online or having anything more complex than a PSTN phone in our lives. Stuff about my Sonos usage they are welcome to, it is relatively insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Public Strava profile? Congratulations in just broadcasting when you are out of the house for the burglars, SSID part of your surname, just found the house I was looking for etc.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 01:53 PM
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The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 02:22 PM
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Despite popular belief it only takes one person to make a difference. There are countless examples where a tweet, Facebook, You Tube video changed Governments, People, Companies.

Simply rolling over to the *System* is just an excuse for being lazy, inept, and don't care.


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Old August 25th, 2017, 03:04 PM
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Personally thinking it is the wanting and easy to get new technology. Mostly it's been IT centric folks that were always concerned about this kind of stuff.

The PFSense firewall endeavor relating to the use of VPN for access to the "free" internet (well it should be free as it is today just a two way broadcast medium).

China and Russia want to ban the use of VPN tunnels for a reason.

It doesn't really matter what they do though because there will always be a will and if there is a will then it will be done. That is just the way of the world these days.

I wouldn't call it rolling over to the system when in fact most folks are totally unaware or even care about the technology on their smart phones, tablets and computers these days.

Last edited by Pete; August 25th, 2017 at 03:16 PM.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 03:34 PM
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There has never been a time in our history where mankind has enjoyed so much technology and advancement. The people have grown up and surrounded by said technology.

This isn't a case of 85 year grandpa too old to know and learn. This is the 2000 crowd who simply are too stupid to care because they are just sheep.

Where we are as a society is exactly like that one movie. Where the *Machine* did everything including wiping their aszz.

The machine broke and none of the humans new what to do and just started to die.

Nobody expects anyone to be all knowing. But for the love of God take a few moments rub a few brain cells together and ask a question or ask why???

People in general these days have zero drive to learn and know WHY! They simply accept things work and it's easy.

Sonos is a over priced WiFi box that offers simple connectivity for the general public. To think people actually believe these box's are at par with true speaker manufacturers is quite laughable.

That's like comparing a Chevet to a Ferrari. Yes both are modes of transportation but one isn't even in the same league in terms of driving performance.

Then again to be fair the audio world is filled with over priced crap with people using fancy words to explain something sounds good!

Seeing a rich fool part ways of 10K for a turntable or 50K for a speaker is right up there with dumb & dumber.


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Old August 25th, 2017, 03:43 PM
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I concur with your thoughts on the Sonos devices. Advertisements sold a pet rock a few years back.

There are many many concerns relating to AI and the future these days.

For our own health some day soon we may not be allowed to drive a car or read a book or explore history....
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Old August 25th, 2017, 03:52 PM
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The movie Idiocracy comes to mind.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 03:53 PM
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On a related tangent the perversion of the so called cloud power is what has started the IoT stupid mentality. The fact people truly believe it's OK to rent something you own and have zero control over privacy & security is why the Internet is in shambles. Well besides the fact low life morons feel compelled to break the Internet!


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Old August 25th, 2017, 04:11 PM
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Personally like music (all kinds).

Sign this petition; it's good for you

Induct Jerry Lee Lewis into the Country Music Hall of Fame

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Old August 25th, 2017, 05:46 PM
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Agreed, while I have nothing to hide I don't much care for snooping eyes into my private life. Without real consumer protection enforcement and policy in the field of IOT, I don't see abuses in privacy by vendors going away.

To mitigate their aggressive act, you could setup a separate VLAN on your network for the SONOS devices to block Internet access to the devices altogether, the only problem with that is that some of their sales pitch is that they give you the streaming audio sources built into their app. Alternatively, you could augment the firewall rules associated with public Internet access for that vlan and either create a whitelist only list of public IP addresses that would only allow it to communicate with the specific streaming media sources. You could also force DNS requests to a local DNS server that only resolves streaming audio domains. All of this assumes that they don't force you to connect to the same public Internet presence for both snooping on your personal stats and streaming media.

Lack of respect for personal privacy is part of my leeriness in solutions that offer all in one baked in solutions that are too easy to get working. My worry is always how much is the conscience of the people developing this tech worth...


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Old August 25th, 2017, 06:02 PM
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There are several things at play here one being pure greed. Next, the failure of consumers to vote with their wallet to say no to *Rental* hardware hosted in the so called cloud.

Lastly, its the abuse of Government who feel compelled to run everything as a Nanny State!!

The days where men were men, a hand shake sealed a deal, and a mans word was his bond is gone.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 12:07 PM
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+++

Did you sign the petition?
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Old August 26th, 2017, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teken View Post
On a related tangent the perversion of the so called cloud power is what has started the IoT stupid mentality. The fact people truly believe it's OK to rent something you own and have zero control over privacy & security is why the Internet is in shambles. Well besides the fact low life morons feel compelled to break the Internet!


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Though I agree with what you say, your delivery makes it hard to care what you have to say.

Mainstream cloud computing has been in the making for the better part of a decade (if not longer), couple that with companies moving everything to the cloud (I work for a very large online auction site and I am in the middle of many projects moving from in house to cloud solutions), the train has started and though not impossible, it is highly improbable that we can stop that train.

iOT devices have taken this concept and have grown on it. This started way before iOT or cloud services though. Think of satellite TV late 90's to early 2000s. You initially just bought the hardware and owned it... then you have what you have now. You still pay for the equipment as if you bought it, but you don't own it, still in a year contract and have to give the equipment back. Talk about buying something you don't own.

We have been doing this for years, and I agree the concept is dumb, except companies wouldn't be doing it, if they weren't making money off of it. Voting with your wallet is probably the most powerful way to vote (hell look at real politics and how money is thrown around there), and the majority of people have voted.

You have a great POV about one voice making a difference and I hope it happens, but if I had to bet, I would bet that info sharing isn't going away and the idea of online privacy is and never was there. Google and Facebook wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for info sharing/selling except in a paid membership model. In fact, I would even go as far to say the internet itself would be on a much smaller scale if we were able to completely remove info gathering.

Another example would be Amazon Echo. Maybe 10 years ago, a device like that wouldn't sell at all and put people in an uproar. Now things have shifted and people not only don't care, they buy into it with ease.
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