Help on UPB 3 way using Simply Automated switches

[Richard]

Had succesfull installs of us2-40 single switches... they are great.

Getting ready to install a bunch of 3 way and 4 way switches using the Simply Automated us2-40 base and the usr remote switch. Looked into a few switch boxes and I can identify wiring as follows;

white - common usually wired together pushed in back of box

black power - see it broken / run through the switch to the load such as a light.

and then the other traveler wires coming from the remote 3 ways switches.

?
power from local switch is connected to the remote 3 way switch and the remote switch / then connects a return power wire that connects to the main switch on a "remote point terminal"

I see 2 "remote" connections at the top of the 2-40 and am not sure how this
fits in to the diagram below? they seem to be not explained in the instructions.

so,

Is this correct ? I am not sure if I have this clear and want to wire up my SA 2-40's and remotes in 3 & 4 way replacements.

Is there a better way to *determine the 3 way remote wiring to the 2-40 & usr switch?

I looked at the SA wiring diagram for 3 way and see,

white - common got it.
brown - appears to go to load / light ?
brown/ white - is this the traveler that is switched power form 2-40 ?
red / white - what is this used for ?

after I understand this ... going to 4 way I have a few of those.

Anyone have a good way to get a handle on this / just do not want to
miss the boat since I spent a few buck on these switches and I have some boxes with 3 & 4 switches in each. (below picture from SA site)

Thanks.

[jlange]

The brown/white wire is the traveler corresponding to the left paddle in a two-paddle configuration. The red/white wire corresponds to the right paddle. For a single-paddle configuration, use the brown/white only and just cap off the red/white.

It can be tricky sorting out all the correct wires in a retrofit scenario (or even new construction). My electrician sometimes colored the white wire black in the set running between the orginal master and slave since it might be hot. This really confused me until I figured it out.

Note: You can get clever with the two-paddle configuration of the UPB slave switch. For example, you can connect the right paddle (red/white wire) to a different switch from the left side. This allows one slave to control two masters (each with only one paddle). A slave can also control a "hidden" right paddle in a master switch. In other words, the master is configured as a two-paddle switch that sends UBP link commands from the right side, but actually only has a single paddle controlling a local load. The slave switch brown/white is then wired to the red/white wire on the master so that activating the slave switch sends those link commands.

[jlange]

One more thing...

The sample wiring diagrams show the brown (load) wire of the US1 optionally connected to the brown wire of the USR. This turns on the LED when the load is switched on. In my home, I like the LEDs to be on when the lights are off so that I can find the switches in the dark. So I installed my switches so that the brown wire in the USRs were always connected to a non-switched black wire. I also configured all my primary switches so that the LED is green when off and black whrn on to match the slaves (The slave switch LED is very dim and looks like it is off if there is any light on in the room.) In some cases I needed to install the slave where the master would normally go in order for it to have unswitched power.

[anogee]

I myself do not recommend the remote switches. They are junk, and you really don't need them unless you are REALLY trying to same money. Instead just install a plain old US11-30 or US2-40 and only hook up power and neutral and ground. Then all the rest is programmed in UPStart. With Links you can program ANY of these switches to control ANY other lights in your house. Its very flexible, and UPB switches so fast, you would be hard pressed to know if you are operating the real switch or the "remote."

In fact, if I were building a house today, I would have every light in the house controlled by UPB, then have EVERY switch in the house UPB and none connected to a load. That way, ANY switch in the house could be programmed to switch ANY light in the house. VERY flexible.

[jlange]

That's a pretty good suggestion, though there is a slightly longer delay when a switch sends a link to another switch verses a hardwired remote (slightly).

Even with each switch connected to a load, you can still program any switch to control any load. I've logically swapped a few switches in my home by using links (and turning off "Switch controls local load") after deciding that the existing placement wasn't ideal. One downside is that the LED will indicate the status of the local load and not the link that the switch sends.

This is a little off topic, but one technique I like to use is to program the double-tap action of the bottom rocker to send a link that turns off all the lights in adjacent areas of a room (for example, turning off the master bedroom, bath, and closet lights from the primary master bedroom switch). I do this in many rooms of the house and it is vey convenient.

[anogee]

The double-tap off is a good idea.

I'm not sure why they even created these remote switches. One interesting thing about them, other than their quality being VERY CHEAP is that their LED does not agree with other switches. You basically only have two choices, green all the time, or green when the light is on and off otherwise, and you have little choice as to what you get.

[Jim Doolittle]

X10 slave switch is even cheaper than USR and works albeit some wire are reversed. No incorrect LED color either...uh... because there is no LED!

[anogee]

HAI has a remote switch also, but at least they have a way to make the LED color match. (Assuming you use the standard colors.)

[Event5]

Richard,

Brad at SA has created a diagram that shows a "real world" look at the wiring in a 3 way circuit. It shows standard 3 way, HA 3way with the USR and a virtual 3 way. For a 4 way wire in parallel, additional "slaves"

Dave

[jasv]

How?

jlange said..

This is a little off topic, but one technique I like to use is to program the double-tap action of the bottom rocker to send a link that turns off all the lights in adjacent areas of a room (for example, turning off the master bedroom, bath, and closet lights from the primary master bedroom switch). I do this in many rooms of the house and it is vey convenient.

I can't figure out how to get the double tap to execute a different link using UPB start. In my version of UPBstart you assign a button to a link and the double tap just lets you do a different ramp rate. Help me out, I really want to be able to have a double tap do something different than a single tap.

[Event5]

Not all SA switches have this feature. Only the SA 1130 can do this. the US 240 does not.

Dave

[jasv]

I feel better..

Thanks for the explanation. I was starting to think that I wasn't a nerd after all.

[anogee]

There are limits and you hit one. The top or the bottom of a switch can only be tied to ONE and only ONE link. YOU CAN NOT send Link A when you single tap and Link B when you double tap. You can, however do a combination of controlling the local light and sending a link. The US2-40 is even a bit more restrictive in that it doesn't support two dim levels like the US11-30 does.

[tenholde]

using us-240, is it possible to have single-tap send linkxx OFF, have double-tap send linkxx IMMEDIATE OFF, and have homeseer detect the double-tap and then fire event to do something else?

tenholde

[pete@malibubeach.com]

using us-240, is it possible to have single-tap send linkxx OFF, have double-tap send linkxx IMMEDIATE OFF, and have homeseer detect the double-tap and then fire event to do something else?

tenholde

The short answer is "yes". As anogee points out, you can only have two different links attached to a switch: on for the top rocker and one for the bottom rocker. Or on a US2-40, one link for each push button or the top and bottom of each toggle.

Then there can be up to four different commands sent to that link: single tap, double tap, push and hold, release. The push and release actions are not terribly useful---I tried them, but the time delay between the time they are sent and the time the trigger is detected and activated makes them pretty unpredictable. So you can ,gor example, do exactly what you asked---bottem rocker single tap send linkxx OFF and bottom rocker double sends linkxx immediate off; and at the same time, if oyu wish, top rocker single tap sends linkyy ON and bottom sends linkyy immediate ON.

And then, yes, homeseer can detect the link commands and do whatever you want.

ONE IMPORTANT THING (that kept me going for a long time): in the UPB plug-in setup screen, you'll want to enable the option: "Force all link commands to be considered a 'change' trigger". Otherwise your triggers won't work correctly.

Pete