Multiple HS-WD100+ or HS-WS100+ on a single 3-way, or a single 4-way switch circuit?

[scorp508]

I have a few 3-way as well as a single 4-way light switch setup in our home. Some of them are dimmed and some are not.


Even though the HS-WA100+ supports double/triple tap and well as press & hold, it does not look to have any LEDs on it. I'd like uniformity across all switches controlling a single load so you can look at any switch and know the status of the load.


If I were to use multiple HS-WD100+ or HS-WS100+ to control a single load in a 3-way or 4-way setup would the status LEDs reflect properly across all of them, or would the LEDs be out of sync depending on which switch was used last?

Thanks in advance.


*edit*

p.s. Would setting them up as linked devices keep things in sync?

[HiIQHA]

When I tested linked devices on two HS-WD100+ switches the LEDs stayed sync'd after a small delay. I noted at the time I had to link each to the other for each to follow local control of the opposite switch.

John

[scorp508]

Thanks, John. I can certainly live with that. I'm probably the only person who would ever run back and forth to see how quickly they sync up.

[Doug Meredith]

I did some testing of this, and the results were not good. The linked devices would probably work well for automation tasks, but I found it way too slow for directly controlled devices. If I turned one switch on, the linked device would turn on after an inconsistent delay of between 1/2 (generously) and 2 seconds.

[scorp508]

I did some testing of this, and the results were not good. The linked devices would probably work well for automation tasks, but I found it way too slow for directly controlled devices. If I turned one switch on, the linked device would turn on after an inconsistent delay of between 1/2 (generously) and 2 seconds.

Thanks for doing some practical testing. Would you mind sharing how you had them wired? Did the switch controlling the load have all 5 terminals connected (ground, line, load, neutral, traveler), and the other switch only 4 terminals (ground, line, neutral, traveler)?


The HS-WA100+ calls for only three terminals (ground, neutral, traveler) which makes me wonder if the traveler terminal on the HS-WD/WS100+ is always hot when you're using the normal combination of a HS-WD/WS100+ and a HS-WA100+. Or is WD/WS traveler only hot wen its internal relay controlling the load is 'off'.


In an old school 3-way circuit the traveler wire is not always hot depending on the switch position, which would leave the HS-WA100+ with no power. I would think it always has to be energized to function.

[cheeryfool]

Thanks for doing some practical testing. Would you mind sharing how you had them wired? Did the switch controlling the load have all 5 terminals connected (ground, line, load, neutral, traveler), and the other switch only 4 terminals (ground, line, neutral, traveler)?


The HS-WA100+ calls for only three terminals (ground, neutral, traveler) which makes me wonder if the traveler terminal on the HS-WD/WS100+ is always hot when you're using the normal combination of a HS-WD/WS100+ and a HS-WA100+. Or is WD/WS traveler only hot wen its internal relay controlling the load is 'off'.


In an old school 3-way circuit the traveler wire is not always hot depending on the switch position, which would leave the HS-WA100+ with no power. I would think it always has to be energized to function.

Be very careful guys. These are not traditional switches. The WA accessory switches are not powered. Pressing the paddle on the WA switch adds resistance to the red traveler which is interpreted by the master WD/WS. Nothing 'hot' touches the WA accessory switches.

As an example. If you have the line coming in at the WD/WS location and the load going from the WA location, in a normal 3-way, this would be switched through the second location using the red/black wires between the 2 switches. In a WD/WS & WA combination, the black line and the black load wires are connected together behind the WA switch (it's switched ONLY from the WD/WS in the primary switch location).

[scorp508]

Be very careful guys. These are not traditional switches. The WA accessory switches are not powered. Pressing the paddle on the WA switch adds resistance to the red traveler which is interpreted by the master WD/WS. Nothing 'hot' touches the WA accessory switches.

Ahhhhh, that explains it. So the WD/WS simply monitors for known resistance values. Thank you, cheery, that is very helpful to understand.

So... that puts me back to the starting line then. I would essentially need what others have requested in other threads; a standalone Z-Wave+ switch that does not control a local load yet has access to hot/neutral/ground in the wall box and cross-link it (logically within HS) to the WD/WS. I don't think the locations I need to put the HS-WA100+ in this case have access to all wire kinds so I may be out of luck.

I'll have to think about this more, or investigate non-HS options or succumb to not having matching LEDs.

[B1Trash]

If you have hot and neutral in both locations, you can wire up the first switch to control the light and the second switch to control... nothing. No traveler wire in this setup. Then use HS to do the logic... So switch A is wired to the light and switch B is wired to nothing. if "central scene" A updates, control "switch multilevel" B load (nothing attached)... if "central scene" B updates control "switch multilevel" A load (actual lights).

[integlikewhoa]

If you have hot and neutral in both locations, you can wire up the first switch to control the light and the second switch to control... nothing. No traveler wire in this setup. Then use HS to do the logic... So switch A is wired to the light and switch B is wired to nothing. if "central scene" A updates, control "switch multilevel" B load (nothing attached)... if "central scene" B updates control "switch multilevel" A load (actual lights).

This is where the small delay comes in that DOUG mentioned and how the thread was originally started. If you turn on the "B" switch there is a small delay before the lights come on vs. having it direct wired. Sometimes this is no issue for remote lights (outside, garage) but seems weird when your in the room and hit the switch only to have a pause before the lights come on.

Dimming up (ramp up) and down I think softens this experience as it feels more like ti's supposed to do that slow vs. an instant on few secs after you flip the switch which seems off.

[scorp508]

I was hoping to avoid remotely linked switches for another reason as well. I don't want to have a negative wife acceptance factor if my HS box happens to be in a bad state when she goes to operate a light. If I'm traveling for work and the box winds up in a state where it can't be corrected remotely, then I'm ok with events and scenes being offline yet I want her to still be able to use everything through physical inputs rather than "box must be screwed up, so I have to fumble through the dark and go use that switch over there."

[integlikewhoa]

I was hoping to avoid remotely linked switches for another reason as well. I don't want to have a negative wife acceptance factor if my HS box happens to be in a bad state when she goes to operate a light. If I'm traveling for work and the box winds up in a state where it can't be corrected remotely, then I'm ok with events and scenes being offline yet I want her to still be able to use everything through physical inputs rather than "box must be screwed up, so I have to fumble through the dark and go use that switch over there."

I think you should be able to set these up under direct association, so homeseer or not they should stay linked. Maybe someone else can test or chime in on that.

[gayste]

So switch A is wired to the light and switch B is wired to nothing.

So, this is a wiring question on this setup. How do wire switch B? Do you just connect the line and neutral and NOTHING ELSE?

I want to replace the second switch of a 3-way setup with a full z-wave switch that has it's own set of functions (not tied to the first 3-way switch).

[jmaddox]

switch B needs line and neutral, it doesn't use a traveler. Switch A connects the line, neutral, load, again not using a traveler unless we repurpose it as the line to power B.

3 way switches can have the load in the middle or the end. The diagram in this thread shows it at the end. You may also find you have a separate line/neutral already running to your 2nd box especially if it's a multi gang box or it's supplying power to an outlet.

Assuming the diagram is the only wiring, and the load's at the end;

1) you'd connect Switch A (at the beginning of the circuit) to neutral, line and load.

2) You'd also connect the traveler to the 2nd set of line terminals on switch A to carry line to the 2nd box where switch B is located. We're just using the terminals to share the line with B, this is the same as using a wirenut to connect red to line-black and then pigtailing to A's line terminal.

3) In the 2nd box the incoming black (load from A) is connected to the outgoing load which leads to the light. Switch B is then connected to neutral (which also has to go out to the light) and the red traveler wire (which has been repurposed as line) to line.

[cowinger]

I found this pre-drawn pic of the connections to the switches you were referring to in previous threads so I thought I would include it. It looks like what everyone has said already but it doesn't hurt to throw it in.

[thewizardofoz]

Thanks. That is helpful info.