Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is HS a viable replacement for C4?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Is HS a viable replacement for C4?

    My family is moving to a new home without any technology. We have been C4 users for years now but are frankly tired of C4's intentional hardware obsolescences with each software update and the dealer model they work under. So I am here looking to see if HS can be a replacement in our new home?

    I will start by saying I am a little confused by HS. I thought it would be a user buildable system similar to C4. But as I read in different posts here and elsewhere I have seen the same thing said. "This is automation not a control platform"

    I am really not sure how to read into this other than to think...

    1. I can put a sensor in a room and the lights will turn on when I walk in... or every day at x time my bedroom blinds will go up and down or lock the doors.

    2. I cannot pickup a remote and push a single button that turns on my theater and dims the lights for me?

    What if I only want the blinds or lights to work when I want them to work on any given day?

    Is this a rigid system that only does a scenario its been programmed for? Meaning, I don't see a traditional remote control for sale to instigate actions you'd like to happen when you'd like them to happen? I see the HS Touch as phone interface but don't hear much good about it?

    I have to believe this will allow everything C4 does but I am just not finding a proven convenient interface to "control" this "automation". What am I missing here?

    Another question... Does this system require a pc to be dedicated and on for the system to work or is that entirely dedicated to the controller to keep the system running? PC only needed to program the controller?

    The more I read the more confused I get about HS and how I can use it after I would have something setup.

    I know this is vague but any info is appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Will

    #2
    It would help if you described what it is you're trying to accomplish.

    The short answer is yes HS can be a control utility. With HSTouch you can create just about any kind of interface you desire. What makes HS so special is its ability to automate as well as control.
    Originally posted by rprade
    There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

    Comment


      #3
      Keep in mind that the main reason why it may be confusing is that it is an "open system" and is much more customizable than C4. There are several possible interfaces to HomeSeer as it is not "closed" like "AMX, Crestron, and Control 4".

      Rather than trying to build "Rome" in a day, take a step back and think of what you're trying to do and organize into projects with respective requirements and priorities.

      I have sent you my contact info in a private message.

      Originally posted by nxda View Post
      My family is moving to a new home without any technology. We have been C4 users for years now but are frankly tired of C4's intentional hardware obsolescences with each software update and the dealer model they work under. So I am here looking to see if HS can be a replacement in our new home?

      I will start by saying I am a little confused by HS. I thought it would be a user buildable system similar to C4. But as I read in different posts here and elsewhere I have seen the same thing said. "This is automation not a control platform"

      I am really not sure how to read into this other than to think...

      1. I can put a sensor in a room and the lights will turn on when I walk in... or every day at x time my bedroom blinds will go up and down or lock the doors.

      2. I cannot pickup a remote and push a single button that turns on my theater and dims the lights for me?

      What if I only want the blinds or lights to work when I want them to work on any given day?

      Is this a rigid system that only does a scenario its been programmed for? Meaning, I don't see a traditional remote control for sale to instigate actions you'd like to happen when you'd like them to happen? I see the HS Touch as phone interface but don't hear much good about it?

      I have to believe this will allow everything C4 does but I am just not finding a proven convenient interface to "control" this "automation". What am I missing here?

      Another question... Does this system require a pc to be dedicated and on for the system to work or is that entirely dedicated to the controller to keep the system running? PC only needed to program the controller?

      The more I read the more confused I get about HS and how I can use it after I would have something setup.

      I know this is vague but any info is appreciated.

      Thanks,
      Will
      HomeSeer 2, HomeSeer 3, Allonis myServer, Amazon Alexa Dots, ELK M1G, ISY 994i, HomeKit, BlueIris, and 6 "4k" Cameras using NVR, and integration between all of these systems. Home Automation since 1980.

      Comment


        #4
        I had C4 years ago now and moved off for similar reasons.

        HS3 is in many way more flexible then C4 and therefore provides a wider scope on what the end user can achieve.

        1. Yes, to all three

        2. You can, but it does not have a dedicated remote like C4, you you will need to investigate the method you use to achieve it albeit integrate with 3rd remote, Alexa or Google voice control, a User Interface on a tablet.

        There is very flexible options to schedule activities based on days, weeks, time and this is in the hand of you to do. There are several 3rd party plugins to assist that you should investigate and they have trial licenses that allow you try before you buy.

        There are several options for the UI but they are user designed and HS Touch is the OEMs product beyond that there is ImperiHome, HSBuddy, Home Remote that are available. There are a number of other options too, such as integration with Harmony remotes, and a number of z-wave remotes so it is horses for courses to which best fits your lifestyle, expectations and budget.

        HS3 must be hosted on either Wintel or Linux PC, this can be a small device from RPi, Homeseer devices, a PC or servers. You effectively had the same as C4 Controller was the host platform for their software; however unlike C4, you do not have seperate software that programs and the pushes the update to this controller, this is all embedded into HS3 and done through the HS3 UI.

        Comment


          #5
          Welcome to the HomeSeer Board.

          I'm not completely clear on what you are looking for, but HS is certainly capable of doing almost anything you may want. It will take more effort on your part, though, than C4. The benefits will be at least two-fold. It will allow you to customize it to do what you want the way your want. It will seldom force you to make changes to your system to accommodate software updates unless they enable new capability that you choose to integrate.

          Whether you use it primarily for automation or for control is your choice. In either case, though, you will be responsible for the system integration, including design and maintenance of your system's UI.

          Most of us consider HS a hobby, and I think that is the most sensible way to approach it. It can be very rewarding, but it has a steep learning curve and will occupy your time, especially as you are constructing your system. It really helps if you enjoy spending your time on it.
          Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
          HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

          HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

          Comment


            #6
            Are you a very busy man?
            Do you have a list of the things you want to control or you are starting from scratch? ====> The joy of HomeSeer is that you can start really small and grow your system as you go along!
            Are you very good with computers ===> Linux or Windows or may be IOS?
            Is it a new build?


            Now if you are comfortable with some but not all the above, here is a good read about HomeSeer: http://www.vesternet.com/blog/2016/0...me-controller/

            After that go here: https://homeseer.com/homeseer-plug-ins/ for a list of doable things you can control with HomeSeer.

            Then come back and tell us what you think and or with any question.


            Eman.
            Last edited by Eman; December 5, 2017, 02:48 PM.
            TinkerLand : Life's Choices,"No One Size Fits All"

            Comment


              #7
              Slightly confused. In my mind control and automation are one in the same.
              Can someone provide a good definition for these two terms if you view them as different.



              Sure HS can automate things like do this and this when you walk into a room.

              If you need that physical remote, that can be handled by several ways too. There are z-wave remotes that you can use to start a set of events.
              You can also use a IR Remote connected to 1 of the supported IR receivers to also kick-off events.

              As others allude to, many options to do things.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by spike5884 View Post
                Slightly confused. In my mind control and automation are one in the same.
                Can someone provide a good definition for these two terms if you view them as different.
                A well equipped sports car provides mechanisms that afford the driver exquisite control. An autonomous automobile does not require a driver.
                Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

                Comment


                  #9
                  Bwahaha! I bought a house with C4. It was not doing anything really but was acting as an AV selector, Alarm Remote, and they had control of two lights. I was fretting losing the remote, and searched high and low for a z-wave remote to go along with Homeseer. I finally got around to using HSTouch. HSTouch gets bad reviews because you have to build what you need and want. But, to me, it seems very powerful in that you can really build whatever you want. I'm not very talented in building interfaces as I've never done it. it's rewarding. Getting out of C4 and getting an open system is a no brainer unless you're really loaded and value your time higher than what you would pay someone to do it. Then, I think you're better off ditching C4 and hiring someone to build an open system which to me HS is the king of the open systems. From the state of my C4 system and the shotty workmanship of the 'Professionals', you're probably better off doing it yourself. What C4 is is a Remote (ugly one), which HSTouch replaces. *I use a Tivo with a slide remote for TV, Netflix, Amazon prime, youtube, so I really don't use the Apple TV or Blueray anymore, so I haven't gotten around to building any actual remotes in HSTouch. But, it's a slide remote which is the most perfect remote i've ever held. So back to what I as saying, Remote=Hstouch, IR(AVReceiver)/Serial device(AlarmRemote)=Global Cache. Here's my amateur created interface i'm so proud of. I guess I should point out that if the Manor banner with the GOT bars (Awesome Sauce) is yellow, there's a door unlocked, or a garage door is open. It's also a button when pressed which leads to a control panel which facilitates lowering of the garage doors, or locking the doors (which the doors all automatically lock after 5 mins anyways, so it's always red. The sword icon is the alarm control the writing's yellow "Armed-Stay" when armed. The light is the Lights which I don't use as a dimmer, but if I did i'd have only 3 preset settings. I used to live in Hotels, and they all have 3 watt light bulbs, so, I want my lights 'ON' (it's a tick).

                  A well equipped sports car provides mechanisms that afford the driver exquisite control. An autonomous automobile does not require a driver.
                  Good one!
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by tome10; December 5, 2017, 10:19 PM.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    There are so many choices for home control today that it's a bit overwhelming. So, thanks to everyone who has replied... I do appreciate it!

                    What we want out of a system... I guess I should start with what we like best about our C4 setup.

                    1. 1 button "house on" / "house off" - The house "Off" being most important. It kills all lights and audio/video devices in the home. We have 6 button key pad just inside from the garage. One button turns on lights when we arrive and another kills the house as we leave.

                    2. That same 6 button key pad also serves as interior garage door control and the buttons are lit green or red to provide visual status of each door. No need to look into the garage to see of the doors are closed. Really like the visual cue.

                    3. From a hand held remote in our Master Bedroom. 1 button push that kills home's lighting, sets some to a dimmed "night light" mode, kills audio/video, closes garage doors if open.

                    4. Lighting intensity by time of day. From Midnight thru 6 am the tap of a light switch only turns the lights on 20%. Very easy on the eyes when I'm heading for a snack in the middle of the night! A double tap then on a switch does ramp them up to 100% if needed. At 6am switches go back to normal.

                    5. Audio. We have 8 Audio zones in our home. I believe there will be about the same in our new. We do like the ease of the C4 remotes and their control of each zones source and volume control.

                    6. We currently have in-wall control units that replace remotes... though the only one that is ever touched is in the master bath. Would like to do the same in MB of new house.

                    7. Hand held remotes for use on TV/Audio. I get these are effectively just universal remotes. One is certainly better than seven when you sit down to watch TV.

                    8. In general the programmable single/double/triple tap of the light switches to perform tasks.

                    The only items beyond what we currently have would be to integrate blinds and alarm system.

                    As far as a UI goes. I am not a fan of phone/tablet based apps to control devices. There are just too many swipes and taps to perform that same 1 button push of a hand held remote. About the only time we use the C4 app is for music channel selection or working with streaming music services. The handhelds just don't do the job here.

                    Question about the mesh network. How robust are they? The new house is an old farm house that has been added onto several times giving it an "L" shape and very long with many pass thru rooms to get from one place to the next. Provided every light switch in the home is Z-Wave or some other... will they all communicate with each other consistently? Also, there is a metal out building about 100' away from the main house. Is there a wireless way to control that as well? Lighting/Overhead Doors/Alarm?

                    If HS requires some type of PC to be running for the system to operate. What is the point of the HS controllers? It seems that every peripheral that plugs into a controller could plug into a pc?

                    I hope this helps explain our use for the technology.

                    Again, your feedback is greatly appreciate!

                    Will

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by nxda View Post
                      1. 1 button "house on" / "house off" - The house "Off" being most important. It kills all lights and audio/video devices in the home. We have 6 button key pad just inside from the garage. One button turns on lights when we arrive and another kills the house as we leave.
                      As long as your keypad button presses can be detected by HS this is a very straightforward task to include. We do something similar by integrating the alarm panel. The house goes into 'Away' mode when the panel is Armed-Away and returns to 'Home' mode when it is disarmed.
                      2. That same 6 button key pad also serves as interior garage door control and the buttons are lit green or red to provide visual status of each door. No need to look into the garage to see of the doors are closed. Really like the visual cue.
                      Again, this is a keypad capability. I use a tablet and HSTouch to do something similar, but with more control over the range of functions and appearance than a keypad allows.
                      3. From a hand held remote in our Master Bedroom. 1 button push that kills home's lighting, sets some to a dimmed "night light" mode, kills audio/video, closes garage doors if open.
                      Again, I do this with a tablet and HSTouch.
                      4. Lighting intensity by time of day. From Midnight thru 6 am the tap of a light switch only turns the lights on 20%. Very easy on the eyes when I'm heading for a snack in the middle of the night! A double tap then on a switch does ramp them up to 100% if needed. At 6am switches go back to normal.
                      HS does this for us. We also use direct measurement of solar radiation intensity to modify the lighting to account for overcast vs. bright sunny conditions. It will depend on the capabilities of your lighting control, the HS plug-in, and what other inputs you provide to HS.
                      5. Audio. We have 8 Audio zones in our home. I believe there will be about the same in our new. We do like the ease of the C4 remotes and their control of each zones source and volume control.
                      Again, it will depend on your choice of audio system. I use Russound CAV and the BLRussound plug-in. It provides total control of all functions. The number of zones depends on the Russound hardware / number of amps.
                      6. We currently have in-wall control units that replace remotes... though the only one that is ever touched is in the master bath. Would like to do the same in MB of new house.
                      As noted above, we do this with tablets and HSTouch.
                      7. Hand held remotes for use on TV/Audio. I get these are effectively just universal remotes. One is certainly better than seven when you sit down to watch TV.
                      I use Harmony remotes, but have not integrated them with HS. Others have done it, and I believe there is at least on plug-in.
                      8. In general the programmable single/double/triple tap of the light switches to perform tasks.
                      Again, this is a function of the switch hardware. HS can handle it, and I believe the HS Z-wave switches support it.
                      The only items beyond what we currently have would be to integrate blinds and alarm system.
                      Alarm integration has many options and works seamlessly for us. Blind integration has been done by some, but I'm not aware of how effectively.
                      As far as a UI goes. I am not a fan of phone/tablet based apps to control devices. There are just too many swipes and taps to perform that same 1 button push of a hand held remote. About the only time we use the C4 app is for music channel selection or working with streaming music services. The handhelds just don't do the job here.
                      I agree. That is mostly a design problem, however. One of my pet peeves with canned "automation solutions" is that they make simple tasks more tedious rather than easier. One of the benefits of HSTouch is that you can design your own interface with just the buttons you want - minimal swiping required. The downside: You have to design and implement - and maintain - your solution.
                      Question about the mesh network. How robust are they? The new house is an old farm house that has been added onto several times giving it an "L" shape and very long with many pass thru rooms to get from one place to the next. Provided every light switch in the home is Z-Wave or some other... will they all communicate with each other consistently? Also, there is a metal out building about 100' away from the main house. Is there a wireless way to control that as well? Lighting/Overhead Doors/Alarm?
                      I don't use Z-wave, so cannot answer these.
                      If HS requires some type of PC to be running for the system to operate. What is the point of the HS controllers? It seems that every peripheral that plugs into a controller could plug into a pc?
                      The HS controllers are just dedicated PCs that have been 'optimized' to run HS. I've never used one, preferring to use a PC. I think it's mostly a personal choice.
                      Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                      HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                      HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I would say the biggest thing would be do you have experience configuring a home automation system?

                        If you don't, while yes HomeSeer can do 'anything is true, but you will more than likely have a difficult time configuring the system you described.

                        ...you could pay someone to setup your system, as it would be a one time only event.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by MrMxyzptlk View Post
                          I would say the biggest thing would be do you have experience configuring a home automation system?

                          If you don't, while yes HomeSeer can do 'anything is true, but you will more than likely have a difficult time configuring the system you described.

                          ...you could pay someone to setup your system, as it would be a one time only event.
                          I have a solid understanding of how C4 works and have setup/programmed/built drivers for. Not sure if there is any logical overlap with HS?

                          I certainly would consider paying someone to setup an HS system. They can make all the hardware recommendations... The hardware required is what is confusing me the most.

                          Am am still confused on the Controller. Is it a Controller + PC to make the system work or just one or the other?

                          I went into two local A/V shops yesterday to inquire on options for technology. Sadly their product line begins and ends with C4.

                          Will

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by nxda View Post
                            Am am still confused on the Controller. Is it a Controller + PC to make the system work or just one or the other?
                            One or the other.
                            Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                            HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                            HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by nxda View Post
                              Am am still confused on the Controller. Is it a Controller + PC to make the system work or just one or the other?
                              Will

                              The Controllers are pre-configured appliances you can purchase. They contain both the HomeSeer 3 (HS3) software and computer.

                              You can purchase the same HomeSeer 3 (HS3) software and install on your own computer. Multiple OSes supported.

                              You will then need to purchase Interfaces to communicate with devices (switches, dimmers, sensors, etc) based on the protocol (e.g. z-wave) your devices use.

                              Depending on the Interfaces you use, you may or may need to purchase plug-ins (software to extend the base HS3 software.

                              Additionally, you may want to purchase, some are free, plug-ins to simplify your configuration of HS3 events and extend your HS3 system's capabilities (e.g. EasyTrigger, RFXCOM, WeatherXML, BLBackup, etc) - citing examples; not promoting.
                              Len


                              HomeSeer Version: HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.435
                              Linux version: Linux homeseer Ubuntu 16.04 x86_64
                              Number of Devices: 633
                              Number of Events: 773

                              Enabled Plug-Ins
                              2.0.54.0: BLBackup
                              2.0.40.0: BLLAN
                              3.0.0.48: EasyTrigger
                              30.0.0.36: RFXCOM
                              3.0.6.2: SDJ-Health
                              3.0.0.87: weatherXML
                              3.0.1.190: Z-Wave

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X