Think this would work for cleaning up a zwave network?

[outbackrob]

I have a PC running HS3 with a z-net. I have replaced 100+ X10 devices with zWave devices. It all ran nicely up to about 50 devices. Now it sometimes takes up to a minute for some devices to react. I removed some devices and things got better so I decided to split my network up. I have like $5 left in the HA fund so I have to work with what I have. Instead of a new z-net, I want to put all my non-essential devices on a Zee S2 that I don't use anymore. Stuff like courtesy motion sensors for lighting, non-security door and window sensors, sensors for counting things, accent lighting, etc. Hope to get the two systems talking and sharing data. ....all in hopes that by basically splitting the Zwave network in half, I will get better/faster performance.

What are the downsides/pitfalls that I may run in to?


Just wondering if this is going to be much more of a hassle than a second Z-net....


Any advice would be appreciated.

[zwolfpack]

A thought, the Zee S2 and znet hardware are the same. You could copy the znet SD card and put it into the S2 and you'd have a 2nd znet.

[DSteiNeuro]

Have you looked at Z-Seer Plus, I think that this would be your first step?

[Kerat]

I have a PC running HS3 with a z-net. I have replaced 100+ X10 devices with zWave devices. It all ran nicely up to about 50 devices. Now it sometimes takes up to a minute for some devices to react. I removed some devices and things got better so I decided to split my network up. I have like $5 left in the HA fund so I have to work with what I have. Instead of a new z-net, I want to put all my non-essential devices on a Zee S2 that I don't use anymore. Stuff like courtesy motion sensors for lighting, non-security door and window sensors, sensors for counting things, accent lighting, etc. Hope to get the two systems talking and sharing data. ....all in hopes that by basically splitting the Zwave network in half, I will get better/faster performance.

What are the downsides/pitfalls that I may run in to?


Just wondering if this is going to be much more of a hassle than a second Z-net....


Any advice would be appreciated.

To the best of my knowledge Zwave should be able to support up to 250 physical devices. I run a smaller Zwave network with 32 active devices and another 18 devices to be added over the next few weeks. I had noticed slight delays and was able to overcome them by making adjustments to the Zwave network. I worry that you may not be addressing the root problem.

1. I think you may want to look at routing between the root device and an end node. For example if an HST dimmer switch had to communicate through Zwave wall outlet to get to the root transceiver this would be considered a hop. Do note that a device may have to hop through more than one device to get to the root transceiver. When there are more hops between devices and the root transceiver it will take longer events to fire and things to happen. Additionally, an HST dimmer switch operates at (100K) there are older devices that operate at slower speeds (40K, 9K). Understand that if you route through these older devices your device's effective speed is the lowest speed that it has to hop through.

Additionally pseudo-instant status relies on devices sending data directly back to the root transceiver. It works because the device is set to send include/exclude packet every time the device is switched (on/off/etc). The root transceiver sees this and immediately queries the device's state. Pseudo-instant status does not work when there are hops in between the device and the root transceiver because this include/exclude packet does not hop across devices.

My advice would be to ensure that as many devices that can directly access the root transceiver are setup to do so. Then ensure that any devices that need to hope through another device to get to the root transceiver are set to do so through a faster non-battery powered device.

You can see what the next hop is for each device by navigating to: Plugins-Zwave-node information. Each device will be listed there.

The "last working route" field indicates what the next hop is. If it says direct then the device connects directly to the root transceiver.

The "neighbors" field indicates the possible hops that the device can use to get to the root transceiver. If this field does not have node "1" in it you cannot directly connect to the root transceiver.

You can use the "set route" field to configure the device to connect to another device as the next hop. You may need to wake the device up to force this.

Alternatively, HST has a tool that allows you to see these routes graphically listing connection speed and other important details. I will likely be picking this software up when my HA budget is replenished.

I started pushing this when I first noticed delays (I had 15 devices and was expanding to 30) and found that I had brand new HST switches that were routing through some GE dimmers (40K) to get to the root transceiver. I was able to move all of my devices to connect directly and resolved the serious delay.

there is a new Zwave plugin update 3.0.1.130 that addresses delays. I have noticed that after this update (I was on 3.0.1.87) that my system is more responsive though. I will note I only occasionally noticed a delay of more than 5 seconds before this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sparkman]

I'm running 105 devices on a single z-net and don't see any delays. Take a look at how much polling you are doing and for what purpose and scale back as much as possible. Also take a look to see the number of hops to each node. The more direct connections to the z-net, the faster the network will be. You can check that on the z-wave plugin's Node Information page, or using z-seer.

Cheers
Al

[Kerat]

I'm running 105 devices on a single z-net and don't see any delays. Take a look at how much polling you are doing and for what purpose and scale back as much as possible. Also take a look to see the number of hops to each node. The more direct connections to the z-net, the faster the network will be. You can check that on the z-wave plugin's Node Information page, or using z-seer.



Cheers

Al

Good point I did forget about polling. That can have adverse effects on a Zwave network.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[outbackrob]

THANK YOU!

A LOT of great information here. Thank you so much!

I spent 32 years building a solid X10 system and know it like the back of my hand. Zwave is similar but finicky in altogether different ways.

Once the HA budget recovers a bit, I agree that Z-Seer should be my next purchase. In the meantime, I may try creating a second Znet from my Zee S2! What could go wrong....

Thanks again! This forum has saved my buns several times over the last decade and this won't be the last time. MUCH appreciated!

Rob

[BrettS]

[DrZWave]

First do a SCAN EXISTING devices and see if any "dead" nodes show up. Remove them by click on the devices Z-Wave tab. Dead nodes in the controller will screw up the routing algorithms and may result in delays.

As always - minimize polling. Z-Wave works much more reliably if it is highly available which means there is plenty of bandwidth available at all times.
If you have old light switches that required polling, replace them with the newer ones that automatically send instant status.

Run a full Network optimize (PlugIns->Zwave->controllerMgmt->Actions->FullyOptimizeNetwork).
It takes hours with a big network so just start it overnight.
Then check the logs in the morning and see if anything bad happened. Usually things will be much better. Maybe run a 2nd optimize or even a 3rd. Note that the optimizes will wake up every FLiR device (usually doorlocks) many times which will shorten the battery life.

I would not setup 2 adjacent DIFFERENT z-wave networks. They will interfere with each other and make things worse.
HS3 works well with multiple Z-Nets that are on the same network where there are 2 znets which have direct routes to different sets of devices. HS3 I believe will figure out the fastest route to each device and use the best znet for the job.

[outbackrob]

Thanks!

Great points, guys. Thank you!

I'm feeling kinda newbie-ish with these zwave issues. This forum is invaluable.

[Kerat]

Great points, guys. Thank you!



I'm feeling kinda newbie-ish with these zwave issues. This forum is invaluable.

Let us know how it goes man. We can help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk