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  #1  
Old September 26th, 2015, 06:52 PM
Thrag Thrag is offline
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Help choosing switches and dimmers

I've researched the current switch options a lot and I'm still a bit confused as what to choose.

The main thing I'm having trouble with is the companion dimmers. Since I want instant status and to be able to move to LEDs as the current incandescent bulbs burn out I was looking at the cooper RF9540. However I see it has a wireless companion switch. I don't see a wired one. Is there really no option for retrofitting wired companion switches with the cooper models?

I see the GE still has wired companion switches. However according to the charts the switch does instant status (or according to the forums not technically instant status but a good enough approximation) but not the dimmer? Is this really the case?

Do I need to make a choice between using wired companion dimmers and instant status? No solution exists that will give me both?
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Old September 26th, 2015, 07:01 PM
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Leviton has wired companion switches and supports instant status. Just be careful that you don't buy their recently released cheaper line as they don't support instant status.

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  #3  
Old September 27th, 2015, 01:41 PM
mikedr mikedr is offline
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Linear/2gig/Nortek does as well. And it's effectively instant status because you associate it with Homeseer as well as the load switch. The load switch doesn't have to be a Linear switch too.
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Old September 27th, 2015, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedr View Post
Linear/2gig/Nortek does as well. And it's effectively instant status because you associate it with Homeseer as well as the load switch. The load switch doesn't have to be a Linear switch too.
Linear load carrying switches do not support instant status. FYI

GE/Jasco switches can work with HomeSeer for instant status but only if they're in direct communication with the interface (Z-NET, SmartStick+). Instant status does not work via routing.
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  #5  
Old September 27th, 2015, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrag View Post
I've researched the current switch options a lot and I'm still a bit confused as what to choose.

The main thing I'm having trouble with is the companion dimmers. Since I want instant status and to be able to move to LEDs as the current incandescent bulbs burn out I was looking at the cooper RF9540. However I see it has a wireless companion switch. I don't see a wired one. Is there really no option for retrofitting wired companion switches with the cooper models?
?
I have 9540 AND wired companions. The wireless DO not work with this switch. They work great and require a neutral.
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  #6  
Old September 27th, 2015, 08:45 PM
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See here:
http://www.cooperindustries.com/cont...rSpecSheet.pdf
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  #7  
Old September 28th, 2015, 12:19 PM
DevinH DevinH is offline
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I'm currently using all GE switches, which include about eight 3-way sets, and was never aware of this limitation. So I just tested it out, and sure enough...

I looked through HS3 and it appears that it automatically sets up polling when enrolling the switches. I don't remember doing that myself, nor would I have known to. But it looks like all my switches are setup for ~20 minute polls.

My first question then... is there any reason I shouldn't turn off the polling for my 2-way switches? Sounds like it's only needed for switches using an auxiliary switch, so I shouldn't be wasting resources on polling 2-way switches.

Secondly, if I later decide that I don't want polling on my 3-way switches either, could I just replace the companion with another brand that supports instant status and not replace GE load switch? If so, hopefully they come with an identical look. Most all the switches in the house are in 2-4 gang configurations, so I stuck with the same brand throughout in order to not have different looking switches on the same box.
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  #8  
Old September 28th, 2015, 02:32 PM
mikedr mikedr is offline
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You can definitely turn off polling for instant status switches. I don't bother to, probably just out of laziness.

The only thing I've noticed with both GE switches and non-GE switches in the same wall box (particular Linear/2gig/Nortek ones) is that GE switches have a more substantial click than the Linears, the Linears are a slightly different white, and the Linears use green LEDs and the GE's use blue.

Evolve switches seem to be sourced from the same manufacturer as the Linears.

But your solution would work just fine. You can associate the accessory switch (Linear) with the load switch (GE) without any issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinH View Post
I'm currently using all GE switches, which include about eight 3-way sets, and was never aware of this limitation. So I just tested it out, and sure enough...

I looked through HS3 and it appears that it automatically sets up polling when enrolling the switches. I don't remember doing that myself, nor would I have known to. But it looks like all my switches are setup for ~20 minute polls.

My first question then... is there any reason I shouldn't turn off the polling for my 2-way switches? Sounds like it's only needed for switches using an auxiliary switch, so I shouldn't be wasting resources on polling 2-way switches.

Secondly, if I later decide that I don't want polling on my 3-way switches either, could I just replace the companion with another brand that supports instant status and not replace GE load switch? If so, hopefully they come with an identical look. Most all the switches in the house are in 2-4 gang configurations, so I stuck with the same brand throughout in order to not have different looking switches on the same box.
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  #9  
Old September 28th, 2015, 03:43 PM
DevinH DevinH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedr View Post
The only thing I've noticed with both GE switches and non-GE switches in the same wall box (particular Linear/2gig/Nortek ones) is that GE switches have a more substantial click than the Linears, the Linears are a slightly different white, and the Linears use green LEDs and the GE's use blue.
Hmm, that's probably enough of a difference that the wife wouldn't care for it. Even in GE switches, I've two subtle differences. A few of them have a slightly smaller LED, giving off a tiny bit less light. One must be a newer model. Although barely, it's noticeable in a dark room when mixed together in the same gang.

Oh well, I guess if I can remove around 38 2-way switches from polling, and change the remaining eight 3-ways to a quicker polling interval, I'd still probably save in processing.
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  #10  
Old September 28th, 2015, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinH View Post
Hmm, that's probably enough of a difference that the wife wouldn't care for it. Even in GE switches, I've two subtle differences. A few of them have a slightly smaller LED, giving off a tiny bit less light. One must be a newer model. Although barely, it's noticeable in a dark room when mixed together in the same gang.

Oh well, I guess if I can remove around 38 2-way switches from polling, and change the remaining eight 3-ways to a quicker polling interval, I'd still probably save in processing.
The new switches have a smaller hole for the LED. This is a VERY good thing for folks who install these into bedrooms and use the LED as a visual cue to find the switch when it's dark. If you tried this with the older switches, you ended up with a search light in the room!
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  #11  
Old September 28th, 2015, 04:12 PM
Thrag Thrag is offline
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Thanks everyone for the info!
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  #12  
Old September 29th, 2015, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macromark View Post
Linear load carrying switches do not support instant status. FYI

GE/Jasco switches can work with HomeSeer for instant status but only if they're in direct communication with the interface (Z-NET, SmartStick+). Instant status does not work via routing.
I have installed several GE 12727 switches but none of them seem to send instant status when manually turned on and off. I've performed several optimization/rescan operations on the switches each time getting something like:

Code:
Z-Stick: Device Kitchen Main Light Optimization and Add Route completed successfully.
Assigning return route from node 1 to Kitchen Main Light
Node 20 is Z-Wave version: Lib: 3.67 App: 3.28
Node: 20 Supports Class(es): ZWAVE_CMD_CLASS, SWITCH_BINARY, ZIP_V2, POWERLEVEL, CONFIGURATION, VERSION_V2, MANUFACTURER_SPECIFIC, NODE_NAMING
Is there a way to know if the issue is related to the comment above stating that "only if they're in direct communication with the interface"?

My controller is currently an Aeotec Z-Stick Gen 5, could that be the issue? Maybe I should try with a SmartStick+
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  #13  
Old October 2nd, 2015, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avargaskun View Post
I have installed several GE 12727 switches but none of them seem to send instant status when manually turned on and off. I've performed several optimization/rescan operations on the switches each time getting something like:

Code:
Z-Stick: Device Kitchen Main Light Optimization and Add Route completed successfully.
Assigning return route from node 1 to Kitchen Main Light
Node 20 is Z-Wave version: Lib: 3.67 App: 3.28
Node: 20 Supports Class(es): ZWAVE_CMD_CLASS, SWITCH_BINARY, ZIP_V2, POWERLEVEL, CONFIGURATION, VERSION_V2, MANUFACTURER_SPECIFIC, NODE_NAMING
Is there a way to know if the issue is related to the comment above stating that "only if they're in direct communication with the interface"?

My controller is currently an Aeotec Z-Stick Gen 5, could that be the issue? Maybe I should try with a SmartStick+
If the Z-Wave lib (ZDK) is really 3.67, that's your problem. The ZDK should be v4.5x or 6.5x. Are you sure this is really a GE 12727?
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  #14  
Old October 3rd, 2015, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by macromark View Post
If the Z-Wave lib (ZDK) is really 3.67, that's your problem. The ZDK should be v4.5x or 6.5x. Are you sure this is really a GE 12727?
I just double checked, and that is indeed the model I bought: http://store.homeseer.com/store/GE-1...tch-P1888.aspx

This is the full details shown in the node management page:

Manufacturer:
Jasco Products Type:
0x4952 ID:
0x3033 Listens:
Yes Version: 3.67 (ZDK 4.55) Firmware: 3.28
I guess the ZDK is v4.5x, and yet they do not seem to support instant status. I've got a SmartStick+ from a friend and transferred my network over, yet no luck. Tried removing and re-adding the switch, still nothing.

May need to replace with Aeotec Micro Switch G2 which supports association, at least for those where I really need the instant status feature

Last edited by macromark; October 3rd, 2015 at 12:22 PM.
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  #15  
Old October 3rd, 2015, 01:29 AM
mikedr mikedr is offline
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Dumb question, which MacroMark may be able to answer. The GE switch you have is a newer style GE switch -- a toggle switch versus a rocker. I've read that HS3 does a "trick" to get instant status from the GE switches. Perhaps the software isn't set to do this for the switch you have -- i.e., the toggles?

I can definitely confirm that with four or five or so GE rocker switches that HS3 reports instant status.

(Also, as to Linear -- instant status is reported for the accessory switch, which makes sense, because you associate it with a "load," and thus can associate it with HS3.)
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Old October 3rd, 2015, 03:17 AM
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After staring at the node information page for a long time I saw something under the device I was testing:

Last Working Route: 19->4 (40K)

Then a comment earlier in this thread finally started making sense to me:

Quote:
GE/Jasco switches can work with HomeSeer for instant status but only if they're in direct communication with the interface (Z-NET, SmartStick+). Instant status does not work via routing.
So I tried typing "Direct" in the Set Route textbox that showed to the right and that did the trick. Instant status suddenly started working! With some caveats:

  • I did notice that turning the switch on and off rapidly seems to break instant status updates, with the last entry in the logs showing something like:
    Code:
    Dinning Room Wall Light signal received, requesting status.
    . When instant status is working, that line usually comes followed by something like:
    Code:
    Device: Dinning Room Wall Light Set to OFF
    . Could this be due to message saturation in the network? Regardless, changing the state of the switch through the HS website restores the instant status functionality.
  • I also noticed that a Full Optimize operation sets the old route information back and breaks instant status updates. If I go back to node information and override it with Direct again things start working. I guess I'll have to disable Z-Health so it doesn't override the route every night.
So... it isn't perfect, but it's better than nothing!
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  #17  
Old October 3rd, 2015, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avargaskun View Post
I just double checked, and that is indeed the model I bought:
Yes Version: 3.67 (ZDK 4.55)
OK, "ZDK" is what's important and 4.55 is fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avargaskun View Post
After staring at the node information page for a long time I saw something under the device I was testing:

Last Working Route: 19->4 (40K)

Then a comment earlier in this thread finally started making sense to me:

So I tried typing "Direct" in the Set Route textbox that showed to the right and that did the trick. Instant status suddenly started working! With some caveats:

  • I did notice that turning the switch on and off rapidly seems to break instant status updates, with the last entry in the logs showing something like:
    Code:
    Dinning Room Wall Light signal received, requesting status.
    . When instant status is working, that line usually comes followed by something like:
    Code:
    Device: Dinning Room Wall Light Set to OFF
    . Could this be due to message saturation in the network? Regardless, changing the state of the switch through the HS website restores the instant status functionality.
  • I also noticed that a Full Optimize operation sets the old route information back and breaks instant status updates. If I go back to node information and override it with Direct again things start working. I guess I'll have to disable Z-Health so it doesn't override the route every night.
So... it isn't perfect, but it's better than nothing!
GE switches send an a certain type of data packet when you control them manually. When HS3 detects this, it immediately polls the switch. There will naturally be some latency in this process so if you turn the switch on and off rapidly, you may end up with the wrong status displayed. Also, the data packet will not route to HS3, so "instant status" only works for nodes that communicate directly with the interface.

DO NOT USE Z-HEALTH unless you're always making changes to your network. In fact, don't optimize at all if everything is working well. There's no benefit to doing this and (as you've found out) you may end up undoing things you don't want undone.
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Old October 3rd, 2015, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by macromark View Post
DO NOT USE Z-HEALTH unless you're always making changes to your network. In fact, don't optimize at all if everything is working well. There's no benefit to doing this and (as you've found out) you may end up undoing things you don't want undone.
OK, I'm a little speechless. Thanks for the info, but who was to know? And Why? And... And... And.... ?!?!???!!!???!

REALLY?
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  #19  
Old October 3rd, 2015, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ewkearns View Post
OK, I'm a little speechless. Thanks for the info, but who was to know? And Why? And... And... And.... ?!?!???!!!???!

REALLY?
I've mentioned this a few times over the years:

http://forums.homeseer.com/showpost....07&postcount=8

http://forums.homeseer.com/showpost....06&postcount=3

http://forums.homeseer.com/showpost....37&postcount=5
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  #20  
Old October 3rd, 2015, 02:37 PM
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That's a lot like a friend of mine being written up for "failure to take a direct hint."

The assumption, of course, is that everybody reads every thread..... and I really can't wrap my head around "frequently moving [Z-wave] items around in your home."

Anyway, Z-health got my network working again. For that I am grateful. Thanks for the info....
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